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Veritas Scholars Academy | 39 Minutes

Understanding VSA's Dual Enrollment and AP Offerings

Susan Gimotty Written by Susan Gimotty
Understanding VSA's Dual Enrollment and AP Offerings

As many of you have seen this, but for those of you who haven't. This is my VSA Journey. I've had several kids graduate from Veritas and I still have one more in high school. Veritas puts on a stunning graduation, and I'm here to say that you can get your kid to the other side, and that is college or gap year or whatever you might be thinking for them. I think it gets a little daunting as we think about this college journey and how we're going to get there. And I would like to encourage you with this analogy.

I think it's easy to think that the pathway to college is like jumping off a dock and you just hope and pray that you jumped off in the right direction and you're good to go. I would like to offer you that I think the pathway to college is more like stepping stones like this gal on the right. One step at a time until we get to the other side.

And quite frankly, today is one of those stepping stones: you are understanding more about Dual Enrollment and AP and how that could affect your child. So let's just dive right in.

Here is a list of our current Dual Enrollment classes.

What is Dual Enrollment in simplest terms? Dual Enrollment is taking a class in high school and getting high school credit for it and college credit for it.

That is what Dual Enrollment means, that you're “enrolled in two places”. What are the advantages? Well, the advantage is pretty obvious – you can gain and accrue college credit in high school. All three of my graduates did this and they took over 35 Dual Enrollment credits into college. They all used it for something different. Let's go back to this slide for a second.

My oldest, this guy, Michael, that would have been five years ago. He used his Dual Enrollment. He wanted to be a dentist. He wanted to go to dental school, but he also wanted business experience. So he actually had a double major pre-med and business. And so the Dual Enrollment allowed him to get a double major still in four years and not die.

My next one is Madison. Madison's on the back row over here. She used her Dual Enrollment to pick up a Spanish minor with a major in elementary education that has no room for a minor. So she was able to push aside 30 plus credits of General Ed and bring in a minor that she wanted.

My next one. This was just last June, Nicholas. He is a collegiate golfer and he is on the golf course way too many hours. And he also has a very hard major in engineering. He is using his Dual Enrollment for to get instead of taking 17 hours a semester to get him down to more like 13 or 14 hours a semester to hopefully be successful on the golf course and in the classroom. So that is what the advantages could be. And that's three different ways my kids have used Dual Enrollment.

Which Dual Enrollment courses are the best? Well, that is a very loaded question, and I'm going to tell you a little bit more about that in the coming slides. How does it work with my college and how do I request a transcript? All of that is coming up. So as you see here, we currently offer 28 courses and we are adding courses usually every year. It'll be likely that by the fall we will add a couple more courses. So you'll want to check back on our Dual Enrollment list, which is also on our website.

Some of my favorite ones on this list– Why are they my favorite? Because they easily go in as college credits.

  1. Senior thesis is a great one. Pretty much every kid in college has to take English 101.

  2. Another one of my favorites is Rhetoric II; almost every kid has to take Speech 101 in college, so you might as well take it in high school, pay a little extra fee and get college credit.

Teachers have no idea you're taking it for Dual Enrollment. You don't have extra assignments, you don't have a harder workload. It's the same exact course.

We partner with Cairn University in Pennsylvania. Cairn has determined that every class on this list is comparable to a course they teach. So our Rhetoric II is comparable to their Comm 101 Speech class. And that's basically how Dual Enrollment works.

Now let's get to the nitty gritty. What does it look like on my transcript? I know this is small, but you can see just a fly over here on the left-hand side. You can see all of these these on this transcript. That is how it is denoted on your transcript.

Assuming you filled out the application and paid the fee. This is not automatic. If you take Senior Thesis and you don't fill out the Dual Enrollment form and you don't pay the extra fee, then you do not have the DE on your transcript. And unfortunately, this is not retroactive. Maybe your student is taking Rhetoric II, right now and you're like, “Oh! Hot dog, I'm going to get Dual Enrollment credit.” It's not retroactive. And those forms are due October of the coming year, which I will lay out a little bit more in a minute.

So this is how Dual Enrollment looks like on the Veritas transcript. So let's talk about how this works. None of my kids have gone to Liberty University, but they have great degree plan sheets.

So you can Google pretty much any college you want, and you just Google the name of the university and then degree plan sheets, and they're not always called exactly Degree Plan Sheets, but something similar. So, as you see here, this is Liberty University's business degree degree plan sheet.

So back to this slide. All of this is great, but does my kid need Speech 101 in college? That is the magic question. So what I say is go Google universities you're thinking about plus degree plan sheets and go see. Well, let's first look here. English 101 is required for a business degree at Liberty. What's English 101? That is Senior Thesis right here. English 101 right here. That is Senior Thesis. So if you take Senior Thesis at Veritas, you fill out the application for Dual Enrollment, pay the extra fee, you will get English 101 college credit, and then basically you can strike this off, and you will not have to take it in college.

That is an apple-to-apple comparison. We call it English 101. Cairn calls it English 101. Liberty calls it English 101. It should be a shoo-in. Now, let's find another shoo-in. Let's look at this Statistics class right here. This business degree requires statistics, which is pretty straightforward. When I go back to this slide, I see we offer Statistics right here. And look what it's called at Cairn. Math 222, Probability and Statistics I. What is it called at Liberty? Probability and Statistics. That sounds to be an apple to an apple. So if your kid’s going to Liberty majoring in business, have him take Stats, and he would not have to take it in college. So I could cross that one off too.

Now, let's look at Economics. he's going to have to take Micro and Macroeconomics. But let's go back to our sheet back here. Yeah, we offer Economics at Dual Enrollment right down here, but it's just called economics at Cairn. So is that Macro? Is that Micro? Is that a combo? What is that? Now we're talking an apple to an orange.

It's in the same category, but it's not exactly the same. And that's when you're going to have to talk to your university and see if they would take our Economics or Cairn's Economics as one of these economics courses. They won't take them for both. My oldest son, the guy who got the business major, also did take economics at Veritas for Dual Enrollment, and it did count for one of these. So, I am optimistic. But that is not an apple to an apple.

And the bottom line is on you to figure this out. All right. And so that's why we like to run these seminars to help educate you.

All right. Let's look right here. Communication elective. What does that sound like to you? Our Rhetoric II, which is Speech 101. And that, I would say, is pretty much around peg in a round hole because right here you see Speech 101. Okay. So I would feel comfortable crossing that one off, too. And then, as I look through this, I also see the Social Science elective. Well, guess what? A Social Science Elective could be psychology. So you would go into Liberty's course catalog, look at the list of Social Science electives and if Psychology is on the list, I would feel comfortable paying the extra fee and doing that Dual Enrollment, assuming you're going to go to Liberty.

Okay, What else is on this list? Math elective? Well, you cannot take Statistics and count it for Statistics and your math elective. That's double dipping – not allowed. But you could go take Calculus with us, and guaranteed that would count for your math elective right here. And then you're going to see other ones. I could spend hours on this, but this is a flyover.

Let's look at another degree plan sheet. This is Elementary Education from Liberty. I see Comm 101. All right. This is where we're going to have input Comm 101 in the chat box. What would our class line up with?

I got the next one. English 101. What is that going to line up with? With our courses? Exactly. Senior Thesis. All right, let's continue to go down here. they actually have Psychology right here. So what is that going to line up with with our classes? Psychology is going to be a straight, straight one for one. And I also see here she needs a Biological Science and Earth Science over here. But those are about probably the best ones to match up. Western culture. That's kind of interesting. What does that sound like in our curriculum? Omnibus. Exactly. So, let's go back to this list. Do we have Omnibus on here? We do Omnibus IV, V, and VI is here. And could you get one of these two pass through for Western culture? Likely, but you might have to petition– that is not apple to apple. That's going to be a little more apple to orange.

But you might say, “Well, I'm in 10th grade, and I'm going to take Omni IV.” We allow 10th graders to take Dual Enrollment credits. We just don't guarantee we actually don't guarantee any of these are going to pass through to college. And that is the homework you need to do. But once you get to this stage, you can be pretty sure that money spent on Rhetoric, Senior Thesis, Psychology, would probably be money well spent.

Let's talk about that money. My kids are at just X, Y, Z Christian University, and they charge about $750 for one credit, and fees for three credits is $449. So you're looking at $2,300 versus $450 ish if you are a Diploma student. If you are a non-diploma student, the fee is $100 more per class.

Again, those who are having questions in here, write them down or we do have Michelle and Dion answering some of the chat questions as well while we're talking all right.

Next, I want to show you what I did for Nicholas. This is the golfer guy. It is really important that you remember this. I would take a picture if I were you. I do this for a living. And so this is what I presented his university. He goes to Oklahoma Christian, and I have three columns, the column of the Veritas course, for example, Greek I, he took. What does Cairn call the Veritas course? They call it Greek Elementary, New Testament, Greek.

And I looked on Nicholas’ degree plan sheet, and he says he needs a Bible elective. And in the course catalog, Greek is listed as the Bible elective. And that is what I'm saying– I think it should be passed through us. So I presented this to the registrar mostly because I do this for a living.

You can let the registrar process the Dual Enrollment credits and see where the chips fall. Then you can go petition if you don't like where the chips fell. I wanted to help my student along my son and say, “Okay, I think this is how you should catalog it.” And all of these were accepted as this list shows, except for one, they did not accept Omnibus VI as U.S. history. Every other one was accepted for what I laid out right here, and each block represents three. So that's three, six, nine, 12. And you can add it up pretty fast. So that's how many credits pass through for exactly what he wanted.

Now, this is a photo of a degree plan sheet for engineering. So when my student then goes to college, how do we know what he has to take? Well, this is what the college wants him to take. 16 hours his freshman year. Remember, this is Nicholas. He plays golf. He's on the golf course way too many hours. And so we're trying to strike through some of this. So what can I see? Well, they brought in his Calculus so I could strike through that, which is four credits right there. And if you do the math, that brings him down to 12 credits his freshman year instead of 16. Okay.

And so I have degree plan sheets right here. I have a whole drawer of them for my kids. These degree plan sheets right here with all of these markups. Exactly what classes it counts for for Nicholas. And so when it goes to him registering for classes, I help him out.

I say, “Okay, you're going to register for that block, but you don't need Calc because you're Dual Enrollment passes through.” And then you can see every single time. But let's see right here. Oral Comm, That's our Rhetoric II. So now that was three credits. He was scheduled for 16. And so that means he only has to take 13 in his second semester freshman year. That is how you get real nitty gritty on Dual Enrollment.

So what our deadlines? Take a photo of this. This is important for summer courses. The deadline to complete the form and pay. It's both. It's not just the form, and it's not just the money. We need both. May 31st, and for school year courses, it's October 31st. Your advisor will be badgering you on this.

Veritas will be badgering you on this if you're non-diploma also, and they will be sending you to this link right here, and you could copy that down.

And so here's the price. As I quoted earlier, for $449 if you're a full-time student per course. So Statistics, you're going to pay for Statistics at Veritas. Then if you also want three college credits, you're going to pay an additional $449, and then your student will get high school credit and college credit for that statistics course. For part-time students, you're paying $549 per course.

This is totally optional. No one has to do it. It doesn't matter. We don't care. We just offer it as part of our rigorous program. This is probably the most important thing I'm going to say is this: There is no retroactive DE pathway. If you miss a deadline, it's tough cookies. Cairn doesn't care who we are, who you are. If I miss a deadline, I'm in the same boat. So please don't wait till October 31st or May 31st.

Because you know what, maybe you didn't fill out the application correctly. The number one mistake we have on that application is parents not putting their student’s Social Security number on there. Whether we like it or not, Cairn has to have their Social Security number. So if you wait until the last day to fill out the form and you don't put that Social Security number on it, it's hard for us to track you down and get the form in on time. Okay, so note to self: Don't wait till the last minute, and please put the Social Security number on there because they will not process it without it. That social security number is just their ID because they're not a student at Cairn, but that is how they use it because there are plenty of Rick Smiths at Cairn. That's basically like your I.D.

What do Cairn transcripts look like? Yes, Omnibus, Those are each classes. So you're going to pay $549 or $449 for the Primary and one for the secondary. But you don't have to do both. So back to that grade I showed you, maybe you feel like the primary matches up well, but the secondary doesn't. You can pay for one or the other. You decide. All right, let's look at this transcript.

Here's a copy of Nicholas’s transcript from Cairn. How did I get that? It's not through Veritas. Because remember, we are only the vehicle, but we are not giving them Dual Enrollment credit. Cairn is. How do you request it? You go to the National Transcript Portal and you can request their transcript. Cairn, transcripts will not have our grades on there until June 21st. So if you request a transcript right now, if they took Dual Enrollment classes last year, then yes, you might have something like this. But if they took Dual Enrollment classes this year, right now, those grades won't be posted until June 21st.

When applying to college, what does it look like? When Nicholas applied to Oklahoma Christian, they wanted your Veritas transcript and then your Cairn transcript. I'm reminding you: can Veritas give you a Cairn transcript? No. It has to come from Cairn.

We get this question 1 million times and we can't do it. That is your child at Cairn. Then once it's all cataloged, and once your student starts college, you will have one merged transcript that shows the Cairn University stuff, how they cataloged it, and your kids' new classes that they are taking at their university. So that is Nicholas’ merged transcript right there.

Now, one thing to note, you will see here, is that Oklahoma Christian brought in the actual grades from Veritas. So Nicholas got 39 credits of A's before he even stepped foot in Oklahoma. Christian. This is rather rare. Many universities bring them in as pass-fail. It doesn't affect your grade positively, your GPA, or negatively. So, if you get a B in Calculus II, it doesn't matter. It'll come in as a pass. A few universities bring them in as letter grades. And this my older two kids, who are all, again, they're all at just basic Christian colleges. The older two came in as pass-fail. Nicholas came through as the letter grade. Now Nicholas was like “Hot dog! I just so padded my GPA big time.”

And how do you know that? It's very hard to find that out until that actually pulls through. So does the grade matter? Does it matter if I get an A, B, or C in Calc II or an A or a, B or C, and Stats? You don't know yet because you don't know if the grades are going to go through or not. If it's going to go through is pass-fail, then it doesn't really matter if you get an A, B or C, if it's going to come through as an A, B or C; well, all of a sudden now you are making your own GPA at the college.

Okay, So I know this is a lot. I know you have probably 5 million more questions. Write those down. Kim is going to now talk about AP and then we'll answer everybody's stuff at the end.


Thank you, Susan, that was great. So today I'm going to talk about AP or Advanced Placement. We're going to talk about how it works, what are the advantages, and which AP courses are best. How do I prepare for the exams, and where to take the exams?

Because that's a big question for our students. And we're going to talk about how it works with the college your student might want to choose and kind of the difference between advanced placement and the Dual Enrollment classes that Susan just went over, and why Veritas does not have more AP classes. So I'm going to go over that.

First let's start with how does AP work? So AP or Advanced Placement is actually a program that was started about 50 years ago by the College Board, which is the maker of the S.A.T. or PSAT so many of you may be familiar with. And this allows students to take special high school courses where they can earn college credit or qualify for more advanced classes when they begin college.

They're designed to give the student experience of an intro-level college class while still in high school, which, like DE classes one can get college credit for the class if they pass an AP exam, which is a national test, it's offered at the end of the year. In May, every year. The AP exam test, all that a student learns in an AP course, and typically, a student will earn college credit if they pass the exam.

Now the exams are scored between a one and a five and usually, a score of a three is considered passing at a college. So, let's go on to the next slide.

So this is the infographic provided by College Board that goes over the advantages of AP credit. And I'm just going to kind of read through my notes here.

First of all, taking AP courses in high school can earn you college credit, an advanced placement. This makes it possible to graduate from college in a far shorter amount of time and ultimately saving you money, much like Dual Enrollment. But for some students, it can also earn you advanced standing. For example, Harvard University lets you apply for advanced standing if you've completed the equivalent of a year's worth of college courses in AP exams. The University of Michigan grants students advanced standing with AP course credits if they make the required scores in the AP exams.

However, some colleges use scores to place students into higher-level classes, but actually don't give the students credits for the AP exams. You actually have to check. Like Susan said earlier, you have to check college to college to see what credits they allow you to earn at that particular college. Some schools will limit the amount of AP credit you're allowed to bring in, and you can go pretty much to your potential college's website and Google on their website AP credit and find out exactly which credits they accept and what kind of scores you have to earn.

But even if the colleges do not accept the credit, you're getting a boost into more advanced classes, and that can help you work through your major more quickly. And even if you don't earn credit on your AP scores, the AP classes can still get you ahead in that term. I would say if your student doesn't score a three or a passing grade in the AP exam, they can still be better prepared for a college class. We call that the power of making a one a two.

Another advantage of having AP credits on your Veritas transcript is that taking the AP class is a great way to challenge yourself academically and show colleges that you are serious about your education. An AP class on your high school transcript actually signals that you are stronger academically. And in particular, if you can get a four or five on the test, it shows that you're more advanced in that subject.

Like I said, at three is passing. But if you actually make a five, it shows that you're actually in the top 90% of advanced students, which can look really impressive to these highly selective colleges. Since AP courses are challenging and require you to study for a comprehensive exam, AP courses can teach you the skills that help you in your future college classes.

And there have been studies, according to the College Board, that students who take AP exams actually get higher grades in college than those who with similar grades actually did not take or pass the AP exam. Also taking AP credit gives you a boost on your college applications because colleges will check to see that you took the hardest courses available at your school.

And when we send your transcript, we're also sending our school profile, and then our school profile, colleges can see what AP classes we're offering. So, taking an AP class will show that school that you're challenging yourself academically and taking the most rigorous classes.

For example, Yale actually states on its admissions website that we expect you to take advantage of AP courses if your high school provides them. So that just shows you right there, if you're offering them and you're looking for those highly selective colleges, then you might want to consider taking them.

So you might ask which AP courses are best. Well, Veritas officially has only four AP classes that have been approved by College Board. That list you saw earlier are all the classes that prepare you for the AP exam. But these have actually been approved by College Board to be AP.

So there are 4 AP classes:

  • Calculus I, which is AP Calculus AB

  • Calculus II which is Calculus BC.

  • Latin Readings Virgil is AP Latin

  • Psychology

To prepare for these AP exams, you can just simply take the class. These classes have been approved, and their curriculum has shown that they are rigorous enough to prepare you for the exam. So these are the ones that I would recommend.

When choosing other AP credits or among these four which ones should you take; my advice is to choose one, like Susan said earlier, that goes along with your major. If you're not planning to major in something that requires Calculus, then you shouldn't have to take AP Calculus. If you're not going into a major that requires AP Latin, then you should not be held accountable to take AP Latin.

I always encourage students to take the courses that demonstrate your academic interest and the direction you're intending to go in your college major. For example, if you do plan to be an aspiring engineer, take the AP Calculus, maybe even a AP Physics exam, and prove to that college admissions committee that you're serious about engineering. On the other hand, if you're interested in political science or pre-law, there's AP US History, AP, US Government, AP Statistics, or even AP Economics.

And like I said, those classes should prepare you to take the exam, at least partially prepare you. If you're hoping to be pre-med. Most of my pre-med students are required to take at least one year of calculus. So AP Calculus AB would be sufficient, but you might want to also consider AP Chemistry or AP Biology as evidence of your ability to handle treatment classes at your intended college and to find out which colleges accept AP Credit College Board has on their website right here what colleges accept AP credits and what score you have to make on that exam in order to qualify for credit at that college.

So once you decide which AP classes and exams to take, now it's time to prepare for our official AP classes. Like I said earlier, our courses have been approved by College Board and contain the concepts necessary to pass the exam. So those would be courses where you just simply take the course, and you will be prepared for the exam.

Now, there are additional materials available on College Board through their portal called My AP, and your teacher at Veritas has a code where you can sign up for this for free.

So what if you want to prep for an AP exam for a course that is not officially AP with us? For example, AP Biology or Chemistry or AP Economics. How do you do that? Well, it is possible. I have seen students do that. But if you do decide to sign up for the AP exam, I would highly recommend at least an online course or a prep book to prepare for that exam, though the courses will prepare you for the materials, there is a certain way that you have to learn how to take that test.

So the prep books, you can find them at your local library, you can buy them through Amazon. There are many teachers who have posted their classes on YouTube. Kaplan, Princeton Review; they all have wonderful subject-specific AP prep classes available to students to help them prepare for these exams. So that's what I would encourage students to do. If you plan to take that AP exam without actually taking the official class, just make sure that you are prepared.

So the next question, and this would be a question for our students, even taking the official classes is where to take the exam. Exams actually must be taken live at a local school. They must be under the supervision of an AP Coordinator. So even those students taking official AP courses at Veritas need to find a brick and mortar school to sit for the AP exam.

And it's important to look for those schools and contact them early in the school year. College Board has a ledger. AP Course Audit Infection Board ledger. You can copy that now, or maybe Richardson can copy that to the chat box that shows you what schools are offering the exam. And it shows you you can search by city and state or zip code and finds.

And then once you find that school or maybe a couple of schools, I would suggest you call that school's main phone number and ask to speak to the AP coordinator at the school and see if they're allowing students from other schools to test there at the end of the year. So schools are ordering their exam so they have to place their order by November 15th.

The cost of the exams are $96 per exam and the exams are always offered in about the middle of two weeks in May each year, for example, this year's AP Calculus exam is the morning of Monday, May 9th, and the AP Latin exam is actually in the afternoon of Friday, May 13th.

So you can kind of get a feel for when those exams are and when we compare Dual Enrollment versus AP. It's interesting. Students are often asking me if they should take an AP exam, if they already have credit from Cairn University for their calculus course and they ask me what they should do. And I would say, well, that depends on the college you're applying to. Not all colleges are going to accept Cairn University's Dual Enrollment credits. So like Susan said earlier, you can check with that school registrar to see if they accept that. But remember, too, that not all colleges are accepting AP credit and you actually have to make a certain score on that exam to earn that credit. But we know that both AP and Dual Enrollment show that you are ready for college-level work, but AP is an actual national exam, like the S.A.T. or A.C.T.

So I would say that if a student is applying to a highly selective college, that would be that would be a case in which I might encourage that student to take the AP exam. Because when you take a national exam, that's a way for that college to compare apples to apples so they can compare that student to another student coming from maybe a large public school.

And especially if a student is interested in a highly selective college, they might actually be required to take some AP classes. For example, I know Oxford University does require students from America to have a score of a five on at least three AP exams. So that's one school that's very specific about that.

So why does Veritas not have more AP courses? I think you might be able to answer that by now. But let me go over this so that you understand a little bit better.

  1. When a school offers an AP course, colleges expect that student to take that course as evidenced earlier from our comment, that we saw from Yale, highly selective colleges are looking for top students at the school as well as students that challenge themselves. So if we offered more AP classes, colleges would expect our students to take them.

  2. When a school creates an AP course, they actually have to go through an audit where they're reviewed by a college board to make sure the curriculum matches with the requirements of College Board's official AP status. The amount of curriculum that is required to be covered actually limits our Veritas courses. The teachers feel like they have to teach to the test. They feel like they have to help students do well in the exam. They feel a responsibility for that.

  3. We know that studies have shown that schools with AP courses, that students actually give up taking more engaging classes offered at their school in favor of AP classes because they feel like it's necessary to get into their college of choice.

  4. Personal feedback that I've gotten from students and teachers also showed that turning a course into an AP official course often diminishes a student's love of learning. And that's our primary goal with classical education. We want our students to enjoy the subject. We want our teachers to be able to go deeper and not have to teach to the test or meet all the College Board's expectations.

  5. As a matter of fact, in 2018, eight heads of Washington area elite private schools decided to eliminate all AP courses because they found the AP curriculum limited their teachers.
    1. This is a quote from them, “Theories of education have changed a lot over the past 50 years in the ways we teach and tests must reflect these changes. Rote memorization is giving way to learning that is collaborative, experiential and interdisciplinary. With an increased focus on problem-solving. We also integrate and connect our coursework to real-world issues and provide students with more opportunities to engage in original research and deep analysis.”

So in the end, these schools decided to eliminate AP courses because it took room from curriculum that they felt was more in line with their school's mission and core values. And we certainly know at Veritas that our curriculum is unique, it's rigorous, it's challenging and definitely integrates the Christian worldview. And when colleges see the amount of primary sources our students are reading and hear our students speak winsomely and intelligently they will see and be impressed by that rather than by comparing them to other schools that have more AP classes.

So with that, I'm going to talk a little bit about the College Advising Club, and we'll get more to your questions about AP after I get through this slide. So the College Advising Club meets twice a month. It's a club that's designed for our 11th and 12th graders to take them through the college application process. It's actually an interactive workshop, and I bring in different experts to guide our students through each piece of the application.

Some of the questions we talk through are what a student should major in. We cover:

  1. We do some personality tests and interest assessments and strengths assessments to find out kind of how God created them and how they're wired and those strengths. But not only that, but their interests can help guide them to college major.

  2. And we'll talk about what is the FAFSA which is part of the piece of a student's application that the parents get to be involved with which determines actually the amount that you pay for college.

  3. We'll talk about building a good college list and how to find scholarships.

  4. And we also have an essay writing workshop- it's a part of our college advising club

  5. How to create a resume

  6. Towards end of the year, we do how to negotiate a financial aid package, which we're going to do tonight. So I'm looking forward to that.

So with that, I'll let Susan come back and join me and let me see if I can look through some of your questions here. So the list of classes I go back to that slide, can you see that? So these are those two classes that prepare students for an AP exam. But I want you to see only Calc I, Calc II, Latin, Psychology are AP approved.

So these other classes will prepare students for an AP exam. However, you still would need to have additional material to prep for that exam.


All right. I'm going to take a couple of these Dual Enrollment questions. Kim, while you look through those AP ones.

Question: How much money was saved?

Okay. So Earlier in my DE portion, someone said how much money was saved. Technically, DE is not necessarily about saving money. It can be if you shave a year off school. So back to this. If we could, instead of just for Nicolas, remember, I was just trying to strike through one each semester to lighten his load because he's a collegiate athlete. But another way I could have sliced this would have been to not only take off one, but then maybe to move something from here over, to here something from here up to here, and eventually shave off a whole year of college.

Technically, that could maybe save me money. But I'm also here to warn you that many times the big time scholarships are for four-year students. And so if I go save money by shaving off a year of college, it might actually be cheaper for me to just to stay all four years if I get one of those big time scholarships. So that question is loaded. There's a lot of nuances. I would encourage you to ask your advisor if you want real specifics on that.

Question: Can DE start in 10th grade?

And then the other DE question - Clarify if DE can start in 10th grade. So let's just look at this list and let's see what class would be a 10th grade class. Okay. On this list, I see that Omnibus IV Primary and Secondary, likely 10th grade.

Maybe you're taking Novels of Jane Austen in 10th grade. So yes, you are eligible to take it as Dual Enrollment. And on the form that you fill out, it will ask you which classes you want to take. It's just again, we don't guarantee that any of these courses will be accepted by the college. So it is a bit of a risk and that's why you want to be careful because you want to really make sure it's crossing things off your list of your Degree Plan Sheet because it is likely your college will take Cairn’s Greek credit. But if there is no Bible elective or Greek on here, then it's really a waste of money; because yeah, they took the credit, but you're not checking anything off unless you're just trying to have the world's most credits when you graduate as a senior, I suppose. Those are two questions. Kim, I'm going to turn it over to you.

If you have more Dual Enrollment questions, pop those in the chat box while she talks through a few of these AP questions.


Yeah, I think Michelle answered most of these questions in the chat box.

Question: When are the AP Exams Taken?

AP exams are always in May. They're national exams. If you're taking a class during that academic year, you definitely want to take the exam in May.

Now, a lot of my Veritas students are taking Calc I or Calc II or psychology or Latin and not sitting for the exam, and that is perfectly okay. None of the teachers require they take the AP exam. It's definitely additional preparation if you do plan to take the exams. However, if you are looking at a highly selective college and one that requires AP, you do want to sit for that exam, that would be my advice.

And you will have the Cairn University credit and definitely, you want to get that AP designation on your transcript to show that you're taking an AP class but you don't have to sit for the exam if you instead want to have the Cairn University credit, if that transfer as well, then that's a sure bet. The exam you typically have to make a three year or above to get credit.

I looked at Liberty University's AP credit policy and basically it's a three for any AP credit they accept, but they don't actually accept all AP credits. But I do know that Calc I, Calc II, and those are standard at many, many classical schools. That one makes sense to me.


Yeah. So I'm going to just clarify just one thing Dion was trying to clarify in the earlier chat, Full-Time Diploma students are invited to the College Advising Club, but Part-Time students and full-time students can attend can fill out the application for the Dual Enrollment. You just have to pay more if you are a part-time student. And quite frankly, if you run the numbers, if you do four or five deal enrollment classes and you've just paid $100 more per class being a part-time student, that almost basically covers the diploma fee.

So that is something for you to think about because with the diploma comes someone like Kim or myself or Michelle or Dion, who can walk you through it.

Question: How would you change your strategy if your student doesn't know yet what they would pursue? This is what I would do to that, Christine. I would start looking at different degree plan sheets for a wide variety of majors.


Okay. And again, the things that are going to come up over and over again are going to be the best bet. These are my favorite. If you have no idea what you want to major in nor where you want to go to school, these are usually solid options.

  • Rhetoric II

  • Senior Thesis

  • Statistics - if you're going to have to read a chart or a graph in your profession, you will have to take Statistics.

  • U.S. government. Most colleges require some version of U.S. government.

  • French III, German III, or Spanish III. Usually there is a foreign language requirement and any of those three will meet it.

Okay. So, Christine, if you weren't sure, those in my mind would be pretty slam dunks.

Okay, then most colleges need some type of humanities credits. And so then I might look at these Omnibuses and see, well, which Omnibuses really look like kind of mainstream humanities classes?

  • Well, I like this one [Omni IV]. Topics in history. British Modern.

  • I love this one [Omni V]. Medievalism. This is a great one.

If again, I don't for sure know where I'm going to go to college, what I'm going to major in. Likely I will have to have a couple of humanities credits. But this is this is all very just, you know, kind of a makeshift scenario because as you said, Christine, you don't know what you want to major in and you don't know where you want to go to college. So that's kind of that. And then I wanted to say right after Christine's question.

Question: Is it common for DE credit to be accepted from Cairn and are highly selective colleges are less likely to accept?

So I would say that if it's a round peg for a round hole, usually the college will accept it like Speech 101 And you take Rhetoric II. Sometimes the more selective colleges, yes, will be a little bit more gun-shy. But I personally and I help 25 kids get into college every year and I don't see it very often.

Yeah, the Harvards out there might be a little bit more gun shy. They want you to do it their way per se. But last year I helped get a kid into Texas A&M and she was kind of being hassled about the Calculus and we got that to pass through at Texas A&M. And Texas A&M is a very selective school.

All right. Kim, I’m going to turn this over you for a minute.


I think I missed a couple of questions.

Question: Does the exam need to be taken at a certain time frame after the AP class is completed? I did have a student last year take the AP chemistry exam two years after she took AP Chemistry, and she actually did quite well and could have done better if she had put more time into that.

So you can take an exam and after you've taken a class. This chemistry class she took was not officially AP, but she was intending to go into a science-based major. She wanted highly selective colleges, so she challenged herself to take the AP exam and she did quite well.

Question: Are you able to denote AP on a transcript only if your student has taken a verified AP class or has passed the AP exam? We are limited by College Board to only put AP next to a class that has been officially approved by the College Board. We have to go through an audit before we can list any of our classes on our school profiles or in our transcripts as AP.

With that said, I have had many Veritas students take AP exams and put their score on their transcripts in their distinctions box, and that is one of their standardized test scores. So at the time we were also having a SAT subject tests available. So they listed out the AP scores and subject tests that they had kind of done on their own, on their transcripts.

So with that, a school can see, a college can see that you've taken an AP exam, but they also know that you haven't taken an official class and that is impressive, too, that you've challenged yourself in that way.


Question: Why is Calculus I is six credits. Great question. If you look right here, our Calc I is Cairn's Calc I and Calc II. So if you take Calculus I, Dual Enrollment, you do have to pay $449 (assuming you’re diploma) times two, because you are getting six credits of math. You're getting Calc I and Calc II. Now here's where it gets a little dicey is at the college level, like at at Texas A&M; most calculus are four credits, Cairn's are three. So Calc I and II is going to give you six credits at Cairn. But at Texas A&M, it's going to be eight credits. That's not going to fly. You're not going to be able to go six credits in and get eight credits out. So in that case, Calc I and II would probably be equivalent to Texas A&M Calc I, and then you'll get two extra elective math credits that are dumb and unusable, but it still possibly achieves the goal that you don't have to take Calculus in college.

Now, let me show you. Nicholas’ over here. Engineers have to take Calc I, II, III. Yes, don't go into engineering if you don't love math. So, Nicholas, you'll see on his transcript right here, right here. He took Calc I and Calc II with us, which means that at Cairn, that counted for Calc I, II, and III. Okay. That's again on his Oklahoma Christian transcript that they brought it in for. But the problem is it's three credits, three credits, and three credits. OC’s calculus is four credits, four credits, four credits.

So Nicholas brought in nine credits of Calc I, II, and III, and they gave him eight credits for Calc I and II. Still, I say very worthwhile, but those are things that are kind of little bumps in the road as you go along. If you have an advisor, these are questions you can ask them and they will help you. Like I helped that girl kind of finesse it so Texas A&M would count her Calculus.

I want I want to add something to that. In relation to that, if your student is taking Calculus II next year and they've missed opportunity to take the AP exam for Calculus I, when you take the Calculus II the AP BC exam, you actually get two scores. You get a score for BC, but you also get a score for AB. So if your student has missed this year in Calc I when taking the AP exam, they could just take it next year when they take Calc II and in fact could also get up to up to I've seen up to 12 credits, math credits with a Calculus BC exam. They'll get Calc I, Calc II, and often Pre-Calculus credits. So it's in for the price of $96 if your student does well, it's definitely worth it.


A lot of it feels like drinking from a firehose. Or maybe for you, it feels like this photo of jumping off the dock. I'm reminding you that is not what we're doing. We just today took one of these steps to get closer to our journey to the other side.

Today's step maybe something really big for you. Or maybe it seemed tiny and you were barely holding on. But the good news is we recorded this and we will be putting the recording on Schoology within the next hour or two and you can re-listen to it. You can take screen captures, pause it, go at your own pace.

So it's not going to be drinking from a fire hose. It's going to feel like drinking from a water fountain. Kim and I are grateful that you would take your Tuesday afternoon and spend it with us. And thanks so much for coming.