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What are the most important things to consider when developing a classical Christian school? Why is it of the utmost value to teach both virtue and Christ together? We’ll be discussing these questions and more today with Jordan Tyler Poole, the headmaster of Lux Classical Christian School in Jacksonville Beach, Florida.

Episode Transcription

Note: This transcription may vary from the words used in the original episode for better readability.

Marlin Detweiler:

Hello again. Marlin Detweiler. And this is Veritas Vox, the voice of classical Christian education. Today we have with us, Jordan Poole. Jordan, welcome.

Jordan Tyler Poole:

Hey, thanks so much.

Marlin Detweiler:

Jordan is the headmaster of a school that just started a little while ago, a year ago in Jacksonville Beach. And you'll find out as time unfurls why Jordan has joined us, because there's a close connection there. Jordan, welcome. Tell us a little bit about yourself personally.

Jordan Tyler Poole:

Yeah, well, again, thank you so much for having me. And I know we'll dive in a little bit more to the story of how our lives have kind of intertwined as a result of all this. But I'm just super grateful to be here. So I have been in education for a couple of years now.

First time head of school. First-time headmaster as of last year. But my background is actually public administration with a concentration in nonprofit management, that is what I got my Master's degree in. So for me, when I started pursuing it, the administration side is where I was supposed to be or where God was calling me. But in my previous life, I was a pastor for about a decade.

So there is this strong value for me around faith in Christianity and then making the pivot into education. And that pivot for me was one of family values. We had just recently had our first child. And as a result of that, I was like, I want my schedule to align with my son's schedule.

I want to be in his life as much as possible, because if I can minister to my family, well, then I know I'm succeeding. And so anyway, that pivot to education has been awesome. I was in a public classical charter school previously.

Marlin Detweiler:

One child right now?

Jordan Tyler Poole:

Yes.

Marlin Detweiler:

And you're married. How long have you been married?

Jordan Tyler Poole:

Yes, five years. We're just trying to catch up to you and Laurie. So we’re doing our best.

Marlin Detweiler:

You’ve got a few decades to catch up!

Jordan Tyler Poole:

Yeah, I know, but we're on it. We're in it for the long haul.

Marlin Detweiler:

And you've lived in the Jacksonville area for a long time. Are you from there?

Jordan Tyler Poole:

Yes. So I'm actually a third-generation Jacksvilian, which I think is the definition of a city slicker. I'm not 100% sure, but I think I'm in that range. But yeah, so I'm a legacy here in the city of Jacksonville, Duval County. And love it here. Absolutely. My wife and I met right on the other side of my college experience. She's a little older than I am, about five years. And so I married up. But it's great.

Marlin Detweiler:

We all married up, didn't we? You have been working in education for a few years. And you mentioned that you were teaching at a public charter classical school. I want to hear more about that in just a moment. Let's actually go there now. So tell us a little bit about what you did there for the last couple of years prior to this current school, this past school year.

Jordan Tyler Poole:

Yeah. Even if we back it up a little bit further, my introduction kind of into education, the pivot there for me initially started when I started doing my chaplaincy at the University of North Florida. So I was a chaplain there for a few years. And so there was this parallel path between faith and education for me.

But then making the full jump, diving into education. I was at a public charter classical school and I was just an elementary teacher there and I was teaching second grade, was one of a few teachers. We had a pretty sizable second grade class and really enjoyed my time there. For me, it wasn't ever really a question if classical was a part of the equation for me. I didn't realize and I know we can talk about this a little bit further, but like the dissonance in my heart really was this faith element.

Now there is a huge value in my opinion, like when I was at this public classical school, having people of faith, Christian individuals at a public charter school that is classical in nature, that in and of itself is valuable. We need like those undercover individuals. But for me it was one of those things is like, man, if I separate virtue from faith, it's not virtue, it's just a matter of opinion.

And so we were saying these things. We were talking about what it means to be virtuous. So we would have these chants around virtue and things like that. But for me, it was like, this is great. We're instilling something awesome. But at the same time, if we're not being able to be faithful forward in this, we're just creating really great citizens that are still going to hell. And I didn't want that to be the case for me. I wanted to launch it in a different way.

Marlin Detweiler:

Make a difference that goes beyond this life. What was your first exposure to classical education in general, and what was it? And then secondly, what was the appeal to you of it as you learned about it and then practiced it?

Jordan Tyler Poole:

Yeah. So the word “classical” is pretty in vogue now.

Marlin Detweiler:

And because of that, people tend to take it and twist the meaning of it for them.

Jordan Tyler Poole:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And so for me like just kind of hearing the rumblings within the context of education, when I was first launching into this path, I was like, man, this an ancient, ancient path, right? That's been around forever and always. And being able to study the Great Books and things like that, there is this huge appeal to me to say, why? Why would we wait until college to have those conversations with kids when they are ripe for the picking now?

And so that that for me was the big appeal. It was being able to go to this ancient form. And I say ancient kind of tongue in cheek, of course. But this ancient form of education in which we know there's been success and that these individuals that we look up to, that we aspire to be like these great individuals.

They had a classical education. And as a result, if we want to be like them, we should probably pursue a similar form of education.

Marlin Detweiler:

So you're teaching there. Your appeal is to see the influence of the great books and to bring it down into a K-12 world and not wait for college. And then something happens that causes you to say “I'm more interested in doing this in a Christian context.” Talk to us about what happened last year to make all that come together and become part of the name of the school Lux Classical.

I want to make sure to say it there, and it's out in Jacksonville Beach. That is the school that you are the headmaster of. And what's fun about this for me is Brandon, my second son was key in starting that school and working with you. But tell us about your story in how you came to value a different approach to classical education, bringing Christianity into it.

Jordan Tyler Poole:

Yeah, absolutely. So for me, coming to the summer season, there's always this time as an educator where there's like reflection on the past year and then like thinking forward about the future. What does this look like? And for me, I realized there is this low-level dissonance that I couldn't quite put my finger on in regard to what I was doing.

I knew I was headed in the right direction, that to be able to empower people in their calling so that way they can make an impact and then cutting them off at the pass, not starting when they're adults to try and undo things, but starting when they're young, to be able to make sure that these roots are going deep in a positive way.

And so you're saving yourself from a whole lot of heartache and pain if you start when they're young. But all of that being said, it was just the Lord's providence, of course, that my introduction to classical Christian education, I had heard about it but it was mostly in more informal contexts, like in a very strictly homeschool type environment.

But I say all of that– so speaking of the Lord's Providence, my wife took our son to the park in our neighborhood, and it just so happened that Brandon's wife was at the same park with

two of your granddaughters. And my wife and Jackie just started chatting, having a conversation and this introduction to education just becomes a part of the conversation.

And so my wife's like, “Yeah, my husband's in a classical school” and Jackie's like, “Well, we're trying to start a classical Christian school. Our husbands should meet each other.” And so my wife just comes home. She's like, “I met this really wonderful Christian woman at the park, and I think you should just chat with her husband, if nothing else, just as a favor to me, so that way I can continue to get to know Jackie.”

And I was like, “Well, sure, why not?!” And I get introduced to your son. And as he and I start talking, it was this unveiling for me to be able to identify and put my finger on that low-lying dissonance that I was talking about before. That was what we've already talked about, that faith without virtues, opinion.

And so if my virtue is not rooted in faith, then it's just a form of opinion. And so as Brandon and I are having this conversation around what it means to be a classical Christian school, I was like, That's it. That these two things need to be married and I could go on for ages around the value of classical Christian education and just how it's impacted even my life personally and personal study.

But it's just been so powerful because I think the beyond just, you know, hearing from like Dorothy Sayers and a few others around the value of marrying the two, it is that is faith and education or classical and Christian. It is like there's biblical precedent from the beginning around then the knowledge of God being connected to the glory of God.

And in Genesis three, we see like that is the original sin, is it not? It is the pursuit of the knowledge of God, the knowledge of good and evil, without doing it without the glory of God. And so Adam and Eve say, I want the knowledge of God without the glory of God affiliated with it. And the result of that is the fall of man.

And so for us, that's the light bulb for me as a Christian, it's like, why would I ever want to separate these two things? That would be foolish in my eyes.

Marlin Detweiler:

Yeah, that is wonderful. That is really enlightening. There are so many basic things too, that so many people simply don't think through the implications. You know, in my and this has come out in this podcast previously, but the idea that we can have a secular education in the way that we try to do it in America is absolutely well, the word that comes to mind is ludicrous.

You know, I learned I hated history as a young man in junior high and high school because it was simply learning facts. And I didn't really get to learn what happened. And if you start getting into what happened, you start getting into influence and cause and effect. And you have to address the presence of God incarnate in Jesus Christ on Earth because of the influence you have to address things like I could list all kinds of things now, the East-West ism, the Reformation, all of these things have had such a profound impact, and we learn nothing of those. Secular education in America, because they are or at least have been taboo. And it just doesn't work. And as I've said before here, a friend of mine once said what he learned best from his public education was that the world works fine without God. But that's what we learn.

Jordan Tyler Poole:

I know. Yeah, that's wild.

Marlin Detweiler:

Yeah. So you what? You made a big change. You took some risk in a relatively comfortable position as a teacher in succeeding to a start-up, to a new environment. What were the things that caused you to say, “I've got to take this risk”?

Jordan Tyler Poole:

Faith! We're talking about the value of faith and that really is what it boils down to. My wife and I, we sat down after having multiple conversations, reading books, dialoguing with him and with you around classical Christian education and around starting Lux. And to me there is this huge parallel of Lux meaning the light and what the Lord was stirring in me, this desire to be a light in regards to education, to be able to shine light on what education should be.

And so for me, like if I were to boil down like my calling, I want to pioneer impact. I want to be someone that is at the forefront of revival and making a difference. And so for me, I looked at what I was currently doing and I said, you know, this is great and it's safe, but this isn't my calling.

My calling is to pioneer something new. And so to be able to converse with my wife, go before the Lord, go before counsel and have that affirmed multiple times and say, hey, absolutely like this, this is you that I mean, that was huge for me. But there was like just this pioneer spirit that the Lord was fostering in my bride and I.

And we said, there's an element, obviously we're betting on the Lord and what He's called us to do. But there is an element of saying, hey, we're going to bet on ourselves on this. Like we know that the passion that the Lord has put in us to impact the next generation is larger than us.

And as a result, we have the wind of the Lord on our side to be able to do something absolutely incredible. And so that really was huge for us. Now, that is not without its own challenges, of course. Like, I mean, the Association of Classical Christian Schools, they say start a classical Christian school in 18 to 24 months. We did it in six. And that's not braggadocious! That's just the reality of what we did. But if the Lord calls you to do a thing, you do it. And the result of that obedience is something greater than what you could see on your own. And so while for us at Lux, we talk about building a plane while flying it, because that's what this is and it comes with its own challenges, of course.

And we take those in kind and we know that the Lord has our backs again, because if he called us, then he's going to do it. And so there is just this reassurance of not looking at present circumstances because starting a school in six months is crazy. But we're the good kind of crazy that would be willing to do it.

Marlin Detweiler:

Yeah, so let's imagine a scenario here, 20 or 25 years from now. Looking back on those decades, what is your hope, what is your dream? What will be accomplished at Lux in that time period?

Jordan Tyler Poole:

Well, the conversations that the board and I have been having, which have been so valuable in the conversations, I think Lux in general that are of value, is that we're not just creating individuals who know how to think, right? Like that's one of those big things around classical education. We don't want to just teach them what to think. We want to teach them how to think.

C.S. Lewis says that the role of an educator is to irrigate deserts, and that resonates so deeply with me just because of the imagery there. I want to not just speak to the mind of an individual, I want to speak to the heart. And so to create in C.S. Lewis, it goes further.

He says, we want to create men with chests, right? We want these hearts to be beating and not just beating because they're passionate, but beating for the Lord. And so to me, we here at Lux are raising the next generation of world changers, right? So whatever sector they go into, if they decide to go into education, that's awesome.

If it's politics, if it's, you know, medical or ministry, whatever it may be, that they would be individuals that aren't just equipped mentally, but also spiritually. Instead of thinking in a K-12 manner, thinking with that in mind, just as you reference, and it's been something that it's been ruminating in my heart.

I don't want to think about, okay, “We are K-6th, Lux is K-6th this year. All right, how do we just do this?” It's being able to look at, okay, “What's my graduate look like? What's my ideal graduate look like?” And then working my way backward from there. And I know we're headed in a positive direction and moving forward because we have our faith foot forward, but we're not leaving education behind because that's the other side of it is like the in, in the context of classical Christian education.

I mean, we talk about classical without Christian. But then the other side is that we can be so focused on faith that we've left education in the dust. And at that point we haven't created passionate individuals, but ignorant, passionate individuals. And we want them to be able to discourse well. We want them to be able to dialog well about their convictions.

And so that those two things being married together really is the value that I see 25 years down the line is that I'll be able to look at these ideal graduates and multiple iterations of that by this point– 25 years from now. And be able to say these are individuals with chests. These are individuals that are making a difference not just with their mind, but with their spirit, with their heart.

Marlin Detweiler:

That's wonderful. I'm glad you've given that so much thought, because that really is invigorating to listen to. And I expect at times that will provide you with energy to get through the tough times. Speaking of– I was setting myself up there, but I know my next question and it's this. I would expect that a number of people that are listening are people who are starting schools.

What lessons have you learned that you wish somebody had told you so you wouldn't have had to have learned them in such a difficult way?

Jordan Tyler Poole:

Oh wow. That is a great question. And there's so many lessons. There's this continual learning, right? I still feel like a novice in certain degrees. I have really been able to stand on the shoulders of giants. I again just want to express my gratitude to you and to your wife and to just this network of support that when I feel like I don't have total clarity on a thing that I can call you and your wife up and say, “Hey, can we talk?” And that I have multiple people that I can do that with in classical Christian education. And to me that would probably be the value add that I would have for those who are starting a school is find mentors, find people who are a few steps ahead because that's going to give you kind of that encouragement that you need. And it's not meant because you'll sometimes look at the greatness of the individuals who have done it before you and say, “Man, they've created something incredible.” But then in conversation say, “Yeah, I remember when we were in year two and we had to do X, Y, Z,” I was like, “Oh, well, that sounds a lot like what I'm having to do right now!”

And so it's like, so there's a light at the end of the tunnel. And so finding mentors I think is huge. And then reading, reading, reading, I like there has been this democratization of classical Christian education, like you and your wife and so many others, like in those in the nineties, you were having to pioneer and be forerunners of something brand new, right?

Whereas now in 2023 there is a wealth of knowledge around this particular topic. And so to be able to not just find mentors like mentors don't just have to be able to be people that you can call up or have conversations with. I just happen to be lucky enough to be able to have you and your bride on speed dial, of course.

But there are so many incredible books on this same topic and so reading and then being able to formulate and dialog with those that you're starting the school with around, you know, what is the flavor of our classical Christian school. So those would probably be my two big pieces.

Marlin Detweiler:

You are in a second-generation iteration of the recovery of classical Christian education. And you'd be foolish to start in the same way that we had to start. We had different struggles and just, you know, the curriculum wasn't there. You know, the examples weren't there. The history of the last of the decades, two decades ago or three decades ago was not there.

And you have been very wise to pick up on that and do that. That is a great piece of advice for anybody finding themselves a year behind what you're in the midst of. What other thoughts do you have that would be cautions and opportunities for people about to jump in?

Jordan Tyler Poole:

Yeah, so this has been advice given to me and I have seen the value in it and it is thinking with long, long vision is to be able to say like, don't despise humble beginnings, don't try to bite off more than you can chew. There's that adage that says, how do you eat an elephant? It's one bite at a time.

And to be able to find the value in saying, all right, this is just the piece of the elephant that we're biting right now and not try and do too much because you're going to spread yourself thin. There are so many requirements of an individual, particularly in my position. The head of school at Lux and also having to teach and dialog and communicate with parents.

All of these things are valuable. And I love them. But in that case, there are certain things that you say, okay, it's not a never, it's just a not yet. And to be able to say with long vision, I know this is something like I can keep it in my line of sight, I can keep it ahead of me so I don't forget it, but I don't want to say, Oh, I'm going to try and do that now.

And I need to be able to keep the present things present in, say, the future. Things can be in the future, and to be able to keep that vision ahead of you and then to also not say just because we did something a certain way this past year, we have to do it the same way again this next year.

I think there's an element that we're too quick to form tradition like it happened once, and so therefore it has to happen forever and ever and always. And I mean, there are certain things that absolutely that is the case, right? To be able to celebrate holidays that are important to faith and things like that. Of course, like you don't want to touch those but to be able to say like, okay, just because we did this thing this past year, it doesn't mean that it's become a tradition.

Like how do we find even the next iteration of this? Or how do we accomplish the same purpose in a different means, like what might have been necessary last year might not necessarily be needed this upcoming year, and so how do you do that well?

Marlin Detweiler:

Yeah, that's a good word. You know, it's a very important thing to understand that which ought to be repeated and that which might have been good, but we might need to move on from. And that's that requires a good bit of discernment and is the benefit of multiple counselors as a board. I know that Laurie spends a fair amount of time on the phone with you, and I hope that you find that very helpful. It was kind of you to make mention of that kind of thing, and that's where we like what we have learned to have been valuable enough so that you can learn it more easily than we did.

Jordan Tyler Poole:

Well, I think you guys are doing a good job of it. I'm super grateful and I know our board is super grateful to be able to again stand on the shoulders of giants and it formulates conversations that are good internally as well. So not just being able to dialog with y'all, but then to be able to formulate discussions ourselves and say, Well then what does resonate here? What is the Lord calling us to?

Because as you mentioned, the second generation, or iteration of classical Christian education, like if we're standing on the shoulders of giants, how do we make the next generation or iteration– How do we make our ceiling their floor? And to be able to do that well.

Marlin Detweiler:

Well, one of the things that we've had the pleasure of dealing with at Veritas is people from all over the world. And let's keep it in America for simplicity's sake. You're in Jacksonville, but you're not just in Jacksonville, you're in Jacksonville Beach. And I'm familiar with that area enough to know that it is a culture of its own that's a bit unique compared to other cultures like Twin Cities in Minnesota or Dallas, Texas or somewhere else.

What are the things that you have found that you've said, “Well, this is how we adapt what we see as this model.” I hesitate to call it generic, but what we might call the main of classical Christian education. What are the things that you've had to say, “In our unique environment? We do it a little differently here because of our culture here.”

Jordan Tyler Poole:

Yeah, that is a great question. Thank you for asking. To me, you mentioned that Jacksonville Beach is a culture in and of itself. It is not uncommon to have some of our students come in from memory period on the other side of a surf session. So there is still a little bit of surfing in the ocean.

We're only a couple of blocks away. You could walk if you wanted. And so there is just kind of this life of its own that it's carrying like this culture and in the result of that, I would say there is a level of ease that comes into play when, when we're doing this, I think there can be a propensity in classical Christian education.

I think of classical education specifically to be very rigid, and that does not foster a healthy learning environment in some ways. Like having a – and obviously, there's an asterisk or a caveat there, like you need to have systems in place and you need to be able to have structure. But an environment in which you can't ask questions or have dialog is a bad environment to be able to learn in.

Marlin Detweiler:

It’s contrary to the overall philosophy that we're creating.

Jordan Tyler Poole:

Exactly that. Again, yeah, there's that pendulum swing that says what I'm teaching you is more important than the dialog that we're going to have from it. And that's just not so. And so to be able to have a joy-filled environment has been something that has been so valuable here at Lux. And I would say some of the distinctive like so for me, you know, I play guitar, I sing.

And so when we're doing chants and jingles and things like that, I'm playing guitar, I'm singing with students. I'm interacting in that way. So to help foster this love of learning, because to be able to speak to the heart of an individual, I mean, we can get into the value of chants, songs, jingles, all of that, of course.

But like to me to be able to do that in an environment that is joy filled is so valuable. And so those sort of things to me– that ease, that, that safe environment, like as educators me and what I tell my team is, you know, are these students safe? Are they loved? And are they learning? And if we're doing those three things, then we're winning.

Marlin Detweiler:

Jordan, we've got to go. Thank you so much for joining us today, folks. Thank you for joining us. You have been listening the Veritas Vox, the voice of classical Christian education with Jordan Poole. Thanks, Jordan.

Jordan Tyler Poole:

Thank you. Have a good one.