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As Christian families, we’re called by Christ to serve the poor and needy, but how do we do this in a way that helps people long-term? Rather than simply providing hand-outs that will eventually be used up, Hope International comes alongside impoverished people in Christ-centered discipleship and equips them with the tools, training, and capital to start their own sustainable businesses.

Learn how it all got started and get inspired to raise your kids to have a global, gospel-centered outlook in today’s episode, featuring Peter Greer, the President of Hope International.

Episode Transcription

Note: This transcription may vary from the words used in the original episode for better readability.

Marlin Detweiler:

Hello again. I am Marlin Detweiler and you've come to Veritas Vox, the voice of classical Christian education. Today I'm coming to you from a unique situation, but I'll introduce our guest first. This is Peter Greer from Hope International. Peter, welcome.

Peter Greer:

Thank you. Great to be with you.

Marlin Detweiler:

I told you as we visited beforehand I'd introduce this elk rack behind us and the fact that it's broken. A dear friend of mine, whose home I'm in right now in Orlando, shot the elk up the mountain in I believe it was southern Idaho. And he watched with fascination as the elk bounded end over end down the mountain and finally realized not only was it coming down the mountain, but it was about to run him over.

It would have been a very unusual story that a hunter gets mauled by a dead elk he shot moments earlier, but he got out of the way. But it broke one of its… I don't know if you call it a rack? Anyway, it broke one of the main parts of an antler, and that's why he has it displayed this way. So anyway, Peter, you for joining us. Tell us a little bit about yourself personally.

Peter Greer:

Well, I mean, starting with that story of the elk, I mean, I'm probably the only guest that you've had on the podcast, Marlin, who was attacked by a silverback gorilla. I certainly not hunting, but going to see them in Rwanda. And he ran up to me, grabbed me, and started running away, dragging me behind him. So that's my animal story!

Marlin Detweiler:

I've never gotten mauled by an elk and had gotten accosted by a gorilla.

Peter Greer:

But yeah, I grew up in Massachusetts and my father was a pastor and had the enormous gift of a father who there was not a difference in who he was on a Sunday morning as he was on Monday morning. And that was an extraordinary gift that I was given. But I really have an interest in international business and missions and economic development.

And when I was studying in Moscow, ended up having lunch with an individual that was using the tools of business to alleviate poverty and to do it in such a way that the church was strengthened. And I thought that was the coolest thing that I had ever heard. So that's been my career. Started out serving with World Relief in Cambodia and then Rwanda and then Zimbabwe, and now I work with Hope International. And we're active in 24 countries around the world. So thankful for the upbringing I have.

Marlin Detweiler:

I'm looking forward to hearing about Hope International and having a talk about that. But you live in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, where Hope International is based. How many children do you have?

Peter Greer:

So I have four kids and they are ages 18, 17, 14, and 12.

Marlin Detweiler:

Okay.

Peter Greer:

Great Joy. Yep. Married to Laurel.

Marlin Detweiler:

In you're in the thick of it in those years. That's wonderful. And tell us how you work, before we do that. Where did you go to school?

Peter Greer:

Yes, I went to undergrad at Messiah University, not too far away from here.

Marlin Detweiler:

And what brought you to Central Pennsylvania?

Peter Greer:

That is originally what brought me here, certainly for college. But then it was the job with Hope International that brought me back. So I had been living outside of the area for about seven years and then came back after graduate school and went to Harvard Kennedy School to focus on economic development. And then it was after my graduate studies that I moved to Lancaster and certainly consider myself home.

I don't know how long I have to live here. I know I'm not a native, but I’ve been here for 19 years.

Marlin Detweiler:

One of the crazy things about the Lancaster newspaper, that's been the case for as long as I can remember is if you were born somewhere else, you're obituary will always say formerly from they will not recognize you. After I'm dead, I don't care.

Peter Greer:

Well, that's quite a depressing note, Marlin. I thought after, you know, I've been here 19 years and you're telling me it doesn't matter how long because I was born in Concord, Massachusetts.

Marlin Detweiler:

And I'm thinking of you as a native of Lancaster. You'll have to deal with them on that.

So tell us the story of Hope International. I know a little bit about its start and the sound of it. And it's an interesting story. I think our listeners would love to hear it.

Peter Greer:

Yeah. And you know, Ukraine has been in the news a lot after Russia's invasion and that is our founding story and place that we were founded in Ukraine after the fall of the Soviet Union. And local homebuilder Jeff Rad started sending food and supplies and going on trips, did that for several years until there was a pastor named Pastor Petrenko who pulled Jeff aside.

And just consider this. I mean, this is the pastor who's receiving all kinds of good and charity aid, and he pulls Jeff aside and says, “Your help isn't helping us anymore. Isn't there a way for you to help us help ourselves?” And that really was the founding moment of Hope International. And what they did is incredible.

Marlin Detweiler:

Can you unpack that a bit?

Peter Greer:

I mean, well, the pastor realized the challenges of dependency and some unhealthy dynamics, and we all know this, but. But long term, a job is a better way to provide for your family than a handout. And this community in Ukraine, they wanted jobs. They wanted the opportunity to work. And so Jeff said let's figure out a way to help create jobs.

And so what they did was they found out that capital was the missing ingredient. So they started investing in entrepreneurs with small loans so that they could start or expand a small business. And at that time where, you know, before the only job opportunities were with the state-owned enterprises and now it was a little bit of the economy was changing, there were opportunities.

And so Jeff realized if we can go in with a discipleship model, if we can invest in entrepreneurs, help them start and expand small businesses, we can really make a significant impact. So that's the model.

Marlin Detweiler:

What year was that?

Peter Greer:

So Hope International was founded in 1997.

Marlin Detweiler:

Okay. And I wanted to plug that for in terms of understanding how long ago was or that it wasn't that long ago. And tell us about your average loan size when you did that or the cap, how you provided capital, because it may not have always been loans. I don't know the answer to that.

Peter Greer:

Yeah, that's right. No, it always has been loans. And also we help individuals have a savings account and long term, you've got to have both, right? You've got to walk away from the edge of of crisis and a simple savings account is something that a lot of the world does not have. So savings and loans along with discipleship to help individuals and entrepreneurs grow.

And the average loan size, initially the average loan size is just around $400 in certain places, that is significantly higher in certain countries, and in others it is lower than that. But yeah, trying to figure out how we get capital to those entrepreneurs and then just are amazed at how a relatively small amount of money can have just impact that does break intergenerational poverty.

Marlin Detweiler:

Yeah that right there I think is so meaningful to people who are new to what is called microlending in a ministry setting like this. The idea that a few hundred dollars can make – less money than someone would pay for a suit today at a decent store – can make an inter generational difference.

Peter Greer:

That’s right.

Marlin Detweiler:

How can we appreciate that more? Can you help us understand that in ways that as Americans, which are most of our listeners, can really understand and appreciate that? That's just inconceivable in some sense.

Peter Greer:

Yeah. If I could be doing a shameless plug, Marlin, I would say go to www.hopeinternational.org and watch some of the testimonial videos.

It’s the stories, right? It's the stories. And the piece that I love is, you know, there's something about opportunity and generosity that is contagious. And my favorite part of the stories is listening at the way that not only is it a story of business success, but then listening to the way that they have, you know, maybe it's they've adopted children into their home from the community or provided water for the community, or there just is this incredible way that it's not just about the economic transformation, but then it's the generosity, it's the way that they are living with open-handedness and trying to make an impact in their family, in their community.

And I'm so convinced it really does break intergenerational poverty, because then you have education, the kids are in school, then you have the opportunity for new jobs and inviting them into the family business. And it just is exciting to see the cycle continue.

Marlin Detweiler:

You've got you've got me going on two different paths here. I want to get both questions out so I don't miss them and then I'll ask you to pick the one. The one is how do you do this in the name of Christ? The other is, talk to me about how a loan is approved, funded, and then how you see it working out in the cultures that you're at in the countries that trip.

Peter Greer:

Absolutely, Yeah. So when we think about what it looks like to do this model– because there are other organizations, other secular organizations – and I'm thankful lots of organizations doing lots of good. Our mission is to do that and to be intentionally Christ-centered in everything that we do.

And so what that looks like is it starts with who we are. Are we individuals that have experience and are growing in our walk with Jesus? So around the world, that is a key component of who we are and are we growing? Second piece is how we work. So when these groups gather together, they go through something called the five W's. Every time these groups meet, it is so much more than just a visit to a bank or something. It's a group that comes together and these five W's of Welcome – We want people to feel the love of Christ from the minute that they walk in. That's the time of worship. Something beautiful happens when you get to sing and celebrate together and around the world. Song and oftentimes dance is part of the culture. So Welcome, Worship. And then the Word. They read through scripture in an obedience-based discipleship model of saying, What did it say? And then what would it look like if we obeyed that? And then we get to the fourth w, the Work. And that's where the facilitation of loans and repayment and business coaching and training. And then we have a time of wrap up to say, what did we learn and how is it going to be? How are we going to apply what we just learned today?

So if you look at it, four of those five are probably what you and I would do in our small group event. And it's that plus this economic component of it as well. So who we are, how we work. And then the third is how we serve the church. And we partner with denominations, we partner with churches because we really want this to be part of the way that the church in that community is reaching out and loving their neighbors.

So that's the model. And then your other question about what does it look like to do essentially the process of who gets loans and help the capital move. And this is really the backbone of the model. So again, Hope International, over 25 years, we've loaned out $1.6 billion invested in the dreams of the families that we serve. We have a 97% repayment rate.

And if you look at on uncollateralized loans in places of poverty without a rule of law, I have a lot of people that say, Peter, that's not possible. And the key component that does make it possible and this is again, that at Hope International we do not create this, but the broader movement did is it found that within communities where there is knowledge and trust, if individuals come together and say, you know what, I am going to be part of a small group and I understand if Marlin doesn't repay his loan this week, I'm going to cover his payment.

Now, what that does is it aligns the incentive of the group to say who's going to be invited into that group? People of integrity, people of character, and who's going to do the screening for that. It's the most difficult screen to pass. It's your neighbors who know you.

Marlin Detweiler:

Absolutely! That is the first cousin to a jury of peers in the American court system. Something that’s been lost track of.

Peter Greer:

Right, right, right. Because they know, Right. That's it. So so it's that community that comes together and has a very clear incentive to make sure that only the right people of the right character, of the right work ethic are those that access capital. So that's the way that it works. And that's why we can have such an astounding repayment rate based on that it might not be a formal type of collateral, but it's the informal social collateral that you really can rely on.

Marlin Detweiler:

Interesting. What, at a practical level, the businessman in me has a couple more questions there. How long is the typical term of a loan? Do you do you base that on the business type and knowing what it will take to have that money be put to good use? What are the variables there?

Peter Greer:

So there certainly is a wide range of that for investments that are made in agriculture. It is coinciding with the time from planting to harvest.

Marlin Detweiler:

It's tough to pay back during planting season.

Peter Greer:

Right, exactly. Exactly. So that's that's one component. And then more broadly, if it's retail, oftentimes it's, you know, maybe six-month loan cycle, and then some of the larger businesses, enterprises, it's up to, you know, some places it's two years or five years. So it really depends on the model and on the particular – what are they going to do with those funds?

But typically it starts relatively short, kind of learn together, make sure it all is working. And then over time, you can access large amounts of capital and and longer time timeframe as well.

Marlin Detweiler:

Is there an interest rate? Do you charge interest?

Peter Greer:

Yeah, this is one of the things that I love because what that allows us to do is around the world we cover all of our local operating expenses through that interest income and that's the reason we've been able to scale. So we have about 1200 employees around the world. So really it's essentially like a self-supporting missions team.

These are individuals that as they go out, as they do this work. Yeah. The expenses of running the programs in the countries that are covered. So what that means, Marlin, is when we go to our supporters, we are not raising money to do the same thing in the same community. It's a system that you can invest the capital and then it's this virtuous cycle where it continues to be recycled and and grow over time.

Marlin Detweiler:

Well, 97% repayment interest covering operating costs. What a perpetual machine! Really something. The entrepreneur in me has got my head spinning on this. Is there some way has there been discussion on your part to think in terms of this kind of model being facilitated within organizations dedicated primarily to evangelism? Is there some way to develop some sort of self-perpetuating approach that could be done that way?

Peter Greer:

Yeah, the short answer is yes. And I would say again, that is at the heart of Hope that we are reaching individuals with a love and grace and truth of Jesus. But what I've loved is that we've had this posture of being open-handed with everything that we have. And if there is another organization that this could be a complement to the church planning efforts or a complement to their outreach activities, we love training and supporting other organizations.

So we actually have part of Hope International that is essentially full-time consultants training the other organizations, missions, and movements about how to implement the savings group program in in the work that they do. So we're probably in I don't know… I mean, so we've partnered with Compassion International, a bunch of different national church movements and denominations and really just want to say the goal is not to advance the mission of Hope International.

So anything that we have that we can train, equip, support, other organizations, we want to do that.

Marlin Detweiler:

And that's wonderful. So you're way ahead of my question. And it's wonderful to hear and I'll just take a moment to say, if there's somebody listening, feel free to reach out to Hope International in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, to see how you can connect and they can benefit. That's that's incredible. You mentioned, I think earlier, 24 countries in which you're operating.

What would be the short list of those, so to speak, the ones that we would be most familiar with? And then what is it about a country that causes you to say they're ripe for us and let's go there?

Peter Greer:

Yeah. So, I mean, started in Eastern Europe and, you know, Moldova, Ukraine, Romania then went to Asia, a number of countries in Asia, sub-Saharan Africa, a lot of activity there. And then Latin America, as well. So those are the four regions that we operate in. And I know when they have few minutes, I could run through the full list if you want.

Marlin Detweiler:

No that’s alright, they can go to your website.

Peter Greer:

And then the process of going into a new country, I mean, it is a long process and it starts with essentially a desk study that we want to – well, first step is prayer. Prayer is woven throughout all of the aspects and we really do believe that God leads and guides us. And so we also do a desk study looking at places we want to go to, places of high need, as measured by the Human Development Index.

And then we want to go to places of low service, as measured by the Financial Inclusion Index so we can get some data. We want to go to places of extreme poverty without a lot of organizations or approaches that are offering these types of services. And then it's essential, though, after you have that you get a list of places that can work in the different regions.

And then it's really, we only go where we're invited. So we start reaching out to contacts and churches and really on the lookout. When an organization says, I have been looking for you, I have been waiting for the praying for you – and really look for that person or organizational peace that could really help us as we launch in a place.

So you get the qualitative, quantitative, and prayerful, incorporate all of that as we go and determine where to go.

Marlin Detweiler:

But for the audience's sake, you know how little time you and I have spent together at a personal level. I think it could be measured in less than a full day, maybe even a morning at most. And what comes across to me at a personal level and it's coming across during this podcast, is the godliness that you ooze and your approach to really wanting to be a gospel-driven ministry.

It is not just your words that demonstrate your desire to see the world changed, but it's your heart and it comes through even when you're not talking about Hope International. I've seen that and we'll touch on that in some of the things that you've done in addition to your work.

Our mission at Veritas is to restore culture to Christ one young heart and mind at a time. That doesn't sound like a foreign mission for you all either, but we're focused primarily on K-12. We're academically rigorous organizations serving a bit of a different population, no doubt. But how do you see crossover and intersection? How do you see an opportunity for how we're approaching things and what you're trying to do, both at a philosophical level while maybe imminently practical to tell our people how they can get involved, so to speak, where you have the opportunity?

Peter Greer:

Yeah, I would say so much alignment on that in terms of the core mission and what we want to spend our lives doing in Marlin. I so respect and appreciate not only are you having an impact in the space, but you're an entrepreneur at heart. And I love that thinking about how to yeah.

Marlin Detweiler:

I'd rather get sleep at night and come back with ideas that keep me! Ha!

Peter Greer:

That is how you are wired. And I celebrate that, love that. And, you know, so I think that a couple of things come to mind. I mean, one is I am thoroughly convinced that it is good for all of us to periodically get our eyes beyond our community and look around the world and especially look to leaders of faith that are serving in extraordinary circumstances around the world.

And how do they hold on to hope? How do they hold on to faith in places where saying you're a follower of Jesus– I can't say that location, but last night I was getting all these texts of our partners that are having real violence in their communities, targeted at Christians. And how are they still going? How are they still serving?

What is it that that we can all learn from them and their faithful example, that is good for us to learn from? Leaders, from past leaders to present are in different circumstances and are figuring out how to be faithful witnesses in that culture, in that climate. That is good for us. So I guess that's one of the things that I know is the benefit of my job is the opportunity to engage with the global church, brothers and sisters that we're going to be together.

The picture in Revelation is that every tribe and every tongue and I can't wait for that day to come. So yeah, I guess that's one piece. And you know, Hope International, we have a number of different creative ways that educators have partnered with us. Some have done the, you know, you give individuals basically replicate the hope model, give individuals a loan, start a small enterprise, and then whatever the revenue is that goes to Hope International to help entrepreneurs around the world.

And we got a poverty simulation to try and understand that. But I think for all of us, how can the next generation continue to say, what does it look like for us to follow Jesus and to have as much as possible a global impact? So we love partnering with schools and finding different creative ways for that to happen!

Marlin Detweiler:

Well, one of the things that we have been doing for a few years now, COVID interrupted it a bit, but we do at least one missions trip and a field trip each year. This year's field trip was Israel. I don't know what the mission trip was off the top of my head. Is there a mission trip opportunity for junior high/high school age kids, properly chaperoned, for what you do that might both be helpful in a context that you could offer and provide them that kind of vision and expansion of their sense of the world that might benefit them forever.

Peter Greer:

Yeah, we certainly do have some trips to go and see the Ministry of Hope. There is a relatively small number of those that we're able to do, and typically it's not targeted at that age group as well. But what we do, and I love this is we have found a way to create these very interactive experiences for individuals to understand The Ministry of Hope and to have our eyes open to some of the realities around the world.

And that is something we do in schools and we do in different places to connect with students. And that has been very effective. So it's also not limited – where a trip,10-15 students can go on that. This you can do with much larger groups. And again, if anyone has an interest in that, you can check out Hope International.

Marlin Detweiler:

Yeah we can talk about that more offline. That's great. Yeah. Let me let me talk to some of our folks about that and how we might participate. I want to change our topic for just a moment. Another thing that's been born out of your work, I assume – maybe it's born out of something else and you can clarify that or both or maybe multiple things is you have written several books very effectively. I don't know, how many books have you written at this point?

Peter Greer:

15.

Marlin Detweiler:

I knew that it was quite a few. Tell me why you write.

Peter Greer:

So maybe the shortest answer is, I really enjoy it! And I think that maybe a little bit longer is one I find that in leadership, the talent and the challenges were always pulled wide and shallow as opposed to deep. And the writing process for me says, what is something – what is a big challenge that I would love to learn more about? And how can I go deep into a particular question, a particular problem statement that might be helpful in my leadership journey in Hope International and hopefully a little bit beyond that as well?

So starting with what is the challenge, and I can tell you every single one of them has a particular moment and a particular problem or challenge that has spurred it. And so typically it's about a year project. And I am a coauthor. I am not an author. I always work with friends in the process. I've never done anything alone. The book writing world, and I just love to work with one or two friends and to try and wrestle through a topic together. And the craziest part, Marlin that I have just enjoyed so much is the conversations that it opens up.

We have a book called Lead With Prayer, trying to figure out how can leaders and organizations really develop vibrant prayer lives and a culture of prayer and the opportunity to have conversations with, you know, Francis Chan and Jonni Erickson Tada and just this incredible group of people and say, I would love to learn from you. It has been a privilege and an honor. And, you know, I spend a lot of time on planes and that's how I use my plane time, just trying to figure out how to keep writing and thinking through some of these topics. So, yeah, that's right.

Marlin Detweiler:

So you've written 15 books, many of them related to various challenges in leadership. Those are the kinds of things that I enjoy reading, and I've enjoyed reading certain great books, but I'm more of a reader of leadership books. I have to admit, of all the books that you've written, what's the one that you think has had the greatest impact and why?

Peter Greer:

Oh, there's no question in terms of, you know, awareness and and that mission drift by far has the greatest outreach, and that's all about how Christ-centered organizations slowly and too often move away from their founding purpose, passion, and mission and exploration in that was how can we figure out why that happens and what we can do to prevent it?

So that one by far has had the greatest outreach and a lot in the educational sector. You know, we look at organizations like Harvard and Yale and what they were founded to do and what they're doing today, and they are not doing the same thing. And the question is, how can we make sure that's not true in the organizations that we're involved in reading?

Marlin Detweiler:

Can you give us in one minute or so that we have left the spoiler alert for the answer.

Peter Greer:

Oftentimes comes down to clarity. Do they know what the mission is? The intentionality of practice, do they connect the day-to-day, decisions to that? And then the third is about people. How do you make sure that the passions of the first generation do not become the preference of the second generation and become irrelevant to the third generation? If you've got mission clarity, you've got intentionality of practice and you've got focus on passing on and stewarding that passion for the mission, you are much less likely to experience drift.

Marlin Detweiler:

Thank you, Peter. This has been a real privilege. The brief periods of time that I've had a chance to visit with you has always been inspiring. This has not been an exception. This has been very inspiring.

Peter Greer:

Thank you. Thanks, Marlin, both ways. So appreciate you.

Marlin Detweiler:

Folks. You've been listening to Veritas Vox, the voice of classical Christian education. Thank you for joining us.