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Classical education has been called out for being “too inaccessible” to anyone with less than a genius IQ level, “too exclusive” to those who are of non-Western European heritage, and “too expensive” for most families.

We respond to these criticisms and more today in our second episode with Michael Eatmon addressing Sherry Hayes’ (Mom Delights) podcast episode, “Why I Reject Classical Education as a Homeschooling Mom of 15”

Miss the first episode in this series? Tap here to listen to part I in Veritas Vox episode 147!

Episode Transcription

Note: This transcription may vary from the words used in the original episode.

Marlin Detweiler:
Hello again and welcome to another episode of Veritas Vox, the voice of classical Christian education. Today we have with us again Michael Eatmon for the promised episode of criticisms of classical Christian education. Michael, welcome.

Michael Eatmon:
Thank you. Good to be back.

Marlin Detweiler:
Yeah, Michael and I. As you know, Michael say ing this to the audience, we looked over the list of things that we wanted to address. And there are so many criticisms. I'm saying that a little tongue in cheek, but there were six criticisms that we thought would be good to address. And so rather than just two episodes in this series, we're going to do three.

This being the second of the three, the first one is already out there available, where our podcast is found. Michael. Well, the first topic that I'd like for us to tackle is that classical Christian education is limited in its accessibility. I'll make sure I say that so everybody understands due to cost. Why is that and what can be done about it?

Michael Eatmon:
Great question. And before I answer it, the first thing that I want to say is I'm thankful that Veritas is an organization that engages in conversation. And even with critics of classical Christian education, that I think is important because not everyone is involved in and interested in dialog about this, which is so important to us.

Marlin Detweiler:
Yeah. Let me I'm going to respond to that. I realize it's a little off topic, but it's also very important. If we're not willing to engage with critics or with things that might push us, try to push us off balance, then we kind of defy the very nature of what we're trying to promote, don't we?

Michael Eatmon:
We do indeed. Yes. We couldn't be a classical Christian education worth our name if we didn't engage in that kind of conversation. So as I think about this charge, that classical Christian education is limited in its access to others due to cost, the first thing that comes to my mind is that I wish that were not the case, but it is the case in some instances.

Marlin Detweiler:
It is a justified criticism at some level.

Michael Eatmon:
At some level, it is a justified criticism because, as you know, across the fruited plain. Husbands and wives families are contributing via their tax dollars to school systems that in many instances they don't support at all, either by sending their children or even supported ideological or morally. And so they choose to educate at home. But even if they choose to educate at home, they are then tasked with paying above and beyond what they are already paying to a system that they are not using.

So it's certainly the case that for anyone who wants to pursue an option that is not the option of the local public or government school, then he or she is going to be paying costs above that. And it's also the case that these costs are going to be more challenging for some families than they are for others and that's simply a reality of our socioeconomic differences in this country.

And not only that, but the particular instance or the particular kind or incarnation of classical Christian education is going to vary by cost. So whatever cost is associated with homeschooling your children in a classical Christian model is going to be different from sending them to the local brick and mortar classical Christian school or maybe even sending them off to a boarding classical school environment.

So these discrepancies are always going to be there at some scale, regardless of what that alternative educational model is to the public school system.

Marlin Detweiler:
Yeah. Yeah, it has always been true that if we go to something other than the public schools, at least up until recently, and I'll comment on that in just a moment. It has always been true that we end up paying for the education of our children twice, once through our tax dollars and then again through tuition dollars or curriculum dollars.

However, they are being, however the education is being consumed. I got to tell you, that has always been the biggest, maybe not the biggest. One of the biggest problems for me to think about the fact that what we believe to be the best form of education is restricted in who can access it by the lack of having the money to pay for it.

Now, here's an interesting thing that's come along, and I know that some people listening to this will have some philosophical objection to it, and that is that with a Supreme Court ruling of a few years ago, we now have many states adopting a program that generally falls under the name, ESA - educational scholarship. And I forget the A. You don't know what it is, do you?

I don't. Yeah, I forget what it is. But anyway, under ESA about a third of, as we record this, about a third of the states have adopted forms of funding families who are looking for alternative educations. Florida has been one of the best. Arizona is exceptional. I can't speak to a lot of the other ones. But the bottom line is this. Parents are given the opportunity to get help for the funding of their education, sometimes in classical Christian schools, sometimes with Veritas in our online school or in buying our curriculum and a whole host of other alternatives.

And so, depending on where our listeners live, there may be opportunities there for this objection to be overcome. But it is a very real objection, as you pointed out. And it's unfortunate, but it's not unique to classical Christian education either.

Michael Eatmon:
Right, exactly. And I would want to encourage those families to do the same thing. And it does require some legwork. It requires some research and asking around, doing some internet searches. But even beyond that, I would say for those families who say, oh, there's a brick and mortar school down the street for a classical Christian, but we can't afford it.

It's not the only option for classical Christian education, as Veritas knows, because we are of course providing teaching materials, resources and online education to families that are at home and choose to educate from within their homes. And the difference in the economic commitment in these two incarnations is significant. So I think it's also important for people to know that classical Christian education is not monolithic in its delivery.

Marlin Detweiler:

Yeah. And I'm going to do a little bit of promotion of what we do here for just a moment. And that is that our cost is one half to one third of the typical classical Christian school for a full time student including the purchase of curriculum. And one of the differences, even with that price point difference, one of the differences also is that the family that has the student participate gets to keep the curriculum.

And you don't get that in any other competitive environments like we described. Yeah. It is a real problem. It appears that it's being addressed in one way. There are also a number of scholarship organizations that have popped up and other things like that. At Veritas, we have been fortunate to have people give on the basis of financial need.

And so we have some form of assistance, but unfortunately, there is so much demand for it compared to the supply that it's not a large percentage of what somebody might need to be a full time student.

Michael Eatmon:
Right. And I don't know if you're prepared to move on to our next criticism. But before we go, one of the things that I would also say is not only that every family everywhere to some extent needs to engage with this difficulty of providing for their children's education above and beyond what they're already paying for the public schools.

So that applies to everyone, everywhere. But I would say more fundamental than that, though, is this question that we as parents—and I myself have four children, although my youngest is 24, so it was some time ago that they were in grade school—but every set of parents everywhere asks the question, what are the highest priorities in my life?

What are the highest priorities with my children? And I've heard some people say before I would go the route of classical Christian education, except that I don't have X number of dollars in the year. But we take three lavish vacations as a family, you know, during the year. And I say, I want you to say that last line like three times, slowly, and then let's circle back to the question about whether maybe you'd be able to invest some of that into your children's future.

Marlin Detweiler:
Yeah. But I think the bumper sticker I used to see years ago said education isn't expensive. It pays.

Michael Eatmon:
Oh, right. Right. Exactly.

Marlin Detweiler:
We have three topics to cover. Let's move on to the second one. Limit the accessibility due to racial bias. This gets a little bit complicated, but it's a very important one to address. What is—is classical Christian education legitimately subjected to the criticism of racial bias?

Michael Eatmon:
I suppose we should start with the question of what's meant by racial bias. If what we mean by racial bias is that the demographic of classical Christian schools, in whatever incarnation they take, say, in the United States, that they tend to have a certain complexion about them, that may or may not reflect the general population. You say, is that statement true?

I don't have the data available, but my suspicion is that it probably is true that the complexion of classical Christian education might look a bit more Western European. On balance, then it looks more global or more international. But it's really important, I think, to emphasize at this point that that happens to be an accident. I think an accident of where these schools began, the groups that fired them up, the communities that the schools are targeting for entrance, that sort of thing.

So it has more to do with the implementation of the model than it has to do with the model at all. The model itself, I would argue, is the model that is the best and thus is the best for all. Now, that doesn't mean that everyone everywhere will synchronize with it, sort of jibe with it as well as everyone else.

It doesn't mean that it's as affordable as everyone else. It doesn't mean that it's as culturally comfortable from one group to the next as everywhere else. But what it does mean is that classical Christian education does not discriminate on the basis of racial background, cultural identity.

Marlin Detweiler:
Yeah. I can say with the hundreds of schools and the tens of thousands of homeschoolers that I have interacted with, that I have never seen any instance of intentional racial bias saying this is not for that group of people. But at the same time, there's another issue that's a sub issue. I should say a sub issue of this category.

And that is how would you address some? It says, yes, but aren't you primarily about learning from dead white European males? And isn't that culturally out of touch with many other cultures? And people's experiences such that they can't relate to it?

Michael Eatmon:
So that's a great question. And I think we'll dive even more deeply into it in episode three, if we will. I know that. But I think to touch on it, at least briefly now, it's to say yes. In the United States, classical Christian educational expressions tend toward and building upon the foundation of Western civilization, upon the confluence of the Roman world and the Christian faith and practice that flowed into it.

That's certainly true. And for anyone who comes from a culture, a civilization, a background, a part of the world that is distinctly outside of those streams, it could feel quite foreign in much the same way, if I were to step into a traditional Chinese school or a traditional sub-Saharan African school or a traditional South American school, in some places I might feel distinctly out of place.

But I think the next question is, does that mean that there's therefore no growth potential for the student who wants to step into that stream? And the answer is no. I would say it's a great stream. The water is warm. Come on in. It's a great place to learn not only about Western civilization and the great ideas and ideals that it has articulated, but also about Christian faith and practice as they have manifested, especially in the West for the last 2000 years. Yeah.

Marlin Detweiler:
Yeah. You worked in a prior work engagement with an African based collection of classical Christian schools. That was if it wasn't if it wasn't entirely, it was overwhelmingly substantially native African students who would have been subject to this discussion. They were not limited, but it was an initiative by somebody who was very intentional and it was ministry driven.

But as it relates to this conversation about accessibility, what would you say to the Americans listening that you learned from that experience that might be helpful in saying, this is not a legitimate criticism, right?

Michael Eatmon:
Thank you for bringing that up. So in a past chapter, I did work with the Rafiki Foundation, which, if any of your listeners are familiar with it, has work in ten subjects.

Marlin Detweiler:
Some of them, when this episode release is, may actually be on a mission trip to them.

Michael Eatmon:
Oh, fantastic. Some of us now. I am glad to hear that. So Rafiki Foundation is near and dear to my heart. It has worked in ten sub-Saharan African nations, three in Western and sub-Saharan, and the balance in the East. And for anyone who would say the classical Christian education is really only for white folks, or is really only for descendants of dead white European males, I would point them as exhibit one to the Rafiki Foundation and say, not so. I believe still to this day, the overwhelming majority, if not the entirety of the student population.

In all ten of the Rafiki schools are native Africans. They're not transplanted Americans. They are native Africans. And what's so impressive to me about that is that what has attracted many of them to the model, even though many of them have grown up in them all, having begun as orphans and they've grown up in the system? For those who join it as they students, sort of from the side, as it were, what has attracted them is the rich and robust history and treasury that are the truth, goodness and beauty of the Western, classical and Christian tradition. Yeah. So.

Marlin Detweiler:
So well, as we say, like you said, we're dealing with that more substantially in episode three, and we don't want to play our cards, you, too early, right? The last criticism is one I don't hear much, but I know it's out there. Classical Christian education is only for smart kids. But say you.

Michael Eatmon:
Yeah, I agree.

Marlin Detweiler:
And I'm going to say something to. You're not.

Michael Eatmon:
Going.

Marlin Detweiler:
To ask us because you're the smartest person I know.

Michael Eatmon:
Oh my goodness. Then you don't know many people. So I'll echo I will echo something you said a moment ago, and that is I don't know how often I hear this criticism. I don't know how often I hear this criticism either, but I do hear a slightly different version of it. And the other version is something like, well, this is only the sort of education for kids who like book learning.

Kids for whom formal education in a classroom is a good fit. It's not really a good model of education, for those kids who are more hands on learners or who probably are going to grow up to become tradesmen or tradesmen. And my answer to that is no, that is not true, and it's not true. For this reason, we have a vast array of aptitude and achievement represented in the classical Christian tradition.

So there are students who sit in our classrooms who are would be bona fide geniuses who have extraordinarily high IQ. There are some, many I'm sure, who sit in our classrooms, virtual or brick and mortar, who, on the other hand, have rather average or perhaps even below average aptitude and or achievement. And what I would say is that is not fundamentally different from any other educational model anywhere, i.e. you're going to see that disparity within any given academic setting.

I think many a family will even say, goodness, I don't even need to look for a school. That happens in my own family. My own kids are that way.

Marlin Detweiler:
Yeah.

Michael Eatmon:
And I would say to that if someone says yes, but isn't it the case that maybe those kids who are more academically inclined or have more cognitive aptitude might be able to go farther or faster than the other kids in their class in a classical Christian school. Well, the simple answer to that question is yes. And I say this really as an underscoring of reality.

For the listeners, the watchers who don't know me, I am five foot two. Now, put me in a classroom setting. I'm good to go. Put me on a basketball court and yeah, your laugh tells viewers everything they need to know. So yes, it's the case that some can go higher, farther, faster if they have the kind of predisposition or the gifts and abilities that some others don't.

That's true. But it's also true that everyone, regardless of their ability, regardless of their aptitude, regardless of their achievement, I believe will benefit from sitting in those classrooms, from engaging in those conversations and taking a deep dive into the great conversation that's shaping this model. And it really is the case that classical Christian education is a tide water that raises all ships, not just the big ones.

Marlin Detweiler:
Yeah. Let me, let's make this eminently practical. Why should a student of below average intellect be concerned to go to a classical school in order to learn Latin, logic, rhetoric, read the great books, and basically be part of this educational model, this tradition? That isn't going to help him, according to the critic, in his chosen career that might be more vocational.

He might be a trim carpenter. He might be an electrician. He might go to work at Walmart and maybe aspire to being a manager of a department or a store. To what benefit is all of that classical stuff to a person who's not going to be a professor or a doctor or a lawyer or a financier?

Michael Eatmon:
That is a great question. And two answers come to mind. One of them is this. The classical Christian education is about more than what the model can do for us. I'd say it's primarily about what the model can do within us, i.e. that it is transformative of the mind and it's formative of the heart. So regardless of how these children come in, the aptitude that they have, the inclinations that they have, regardless of what career path they might follow later in life, if we ask the question, is it a good thing still to train their minds?

The answer is yes. Is it still a good thing to help train the heart? The answer is yes in either case. So classical Christian education, I'd say, is what I believe to be the best way both to train the mind and to train the heart. And everyone benefits from that. But then there's a second argument. And this may be counterintuitive for those who would say, well, I'm pretty sure my son's going to grow up to become a plumber.

I'm pretty sure my daughter's going to grow up to become an electrician. Fine. Now, I would say, by the way, you must have really powerful sort of powers. Yeah, exactly. If you know that when the kids are in third grade. But what I would say is this. Interestingly enough, the argument for classical Christian education may be even greater for that kid, and for the following reason. When that child makes it through a classical Christian education, let's say graduates from Veritas or some other classical Christian institution and heads off into the world, having had a classical Christian education will markedly differentiate that student from other students of like aptitude and or like career

trajectory. So I think it says to a potential employer, to a potential career path, someone who's responsible for slotting this person into good steps to say, wow, not only can you pick up the skills of the trade really, really quickly, but your ability to analyze and problem solve and synthesize different ways of doing anything. Unbelievable. And communicate it, right?

So I say it may even be a greater argument for those who will need more differentiation later on.

Yeah. There's a pastor, former pastor of mine, that I was very involved in the Geneva school. And I remember him saying that a classically educated student or parishioner, I should say a member of a church, is easier to preach to. And what I understood that to mean when he said it, and it was substantial, it just stuck with me for goodness, 30 some years.

Is that he is primed to understand, primed to hear in the fullest of the sense and primed to be moved more easily and more significantly than somebody who doesn't have that same educational experience. And I think that's quite.

Michael Eatmon:
Underselling.

Marlin Detweiler:
And something of that.

Michael Eatmon:
Yeah. No, I agree completely. And again, it may be the case that if someone is sitting in the congregation listening to the pastor, and the pastor is really connecting with that young man or that young woman who, again, may not have quite the aptitude as some others do. Still, what classical Christian education does is awaken young hearts and minds to pursue the fullness of potential.

And that I think is so important. So we're not asking each student to be like the student sitting next to him or her. What we're doing is saying, what we want you to aim for is the high calling in Christ Jesus for which you have been created. So what we're looking for is the fullness of your human potential.

Marlin Detweiler:
Thank you, folks, and thank you for joining us on this episode of Veritas Vox, the voice of classical Christian education. We hope to see you next time.