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Meet Dr. Tommy Kiedis, president of Lancaster Bible College and a lifelong mentor of leaders. Dr. Kiedis has planted churches, trained hundreds of planters across 32 countries, and now trains thousands for Christ-centered impact in every vocation.

Discover how Dr. Kiedis’ leadership philosophy, which is rooted in biblical wisdom and the sovereignty of God, shapes the way he equips pastors, teachers, and professionals to live “on mission with Jesus.” You’ll also hear how his unique project, Don’t Ask the Fish, helps leaders rise above their circumstances to see life through the lens of Scripture—and why “margin,” not just vacation, is vital for spiritual and creative renewal.

Episode Transcription

Note: This transcription may vary from the words used in the original episode.

Marlin Detweiler:
Hello again and welcome to another episode of Veritas Vox, the voice of classical Christian education. Today we have with us a friend of mine from church in Pennsylvania, Tommy. Welcome, Tommy.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
Thanks, Marlin. Great to be here.

Marlin Detweiler:
Nice to have you here. Tommy is currently the president of Lancaster Bible College and Capital Seminary. And also, we're excited he is going to be the speaker at the Veritas Scholars Academy graduation in spring of 2026. So tell us a little bit about yourself personally, your family, your education, your career.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
Well, I'll start with my wife. So I'm married to Shannon. We celebrate anniversary number 45 next month, so really encouraged about that. We have six married children and 26 grandkids, and they're spread out across four states: Pennsylvania, Florida, Georgia, and Tennessee. So that's a little bit on the family front. Longtime South Florida guy, met my wife in Memphis and then went back to South Florida to plant a church.

And so we have a lot of deep Florida connections before coming up here to LBC. Yeah, I grew up in South Florida. God saved me there, and began my high school years, went up from there to — had a very unique, unique experience. One of those times coming out of high school, I was the kid that didn't have a clue what I was going to do.

One day I was going to be a veterinarian. The next day I was going to be an auto body repairman. The next day I was going to be something else. Probably drove my dad crazy. And in my senior year of high school, the United States Air Force came through, and I said, that's what I'm going to do.

Yeah. And I actually enlisted in March of 77. I was supposed to go active in October of 1977. That was my senior year of high school. I finished, went off to a summer youth camp, which I did pretty much every year with our church, and at that time got a very distinct — I mean, one of two or three times in my life where I've had that kind of distinct sense of God saying, I got something for you.

And because of that, I wanted to go off and begin to study. I had friends at a little Bible college in Memphis called Mid-South Bible College, and I'd heard good things about it, and I wanted to be a part of it. But I had three things against me. One, I didn’t have money.

Two, I had already enlisted in the Air Force, and number three, my dad was not a believer, and there was no way under the sun he was going to say, “Sure, son, go off to Bible college. I think it's a great idea.” But in a couple of weeks' time, we prayed, and God provided the money for my first semester, and I worked my way through after that.

And the Air Force said, “We’d like you to go into the new GI Bill, but technically, we don’t have anything in you at all at this point in time. You’re not supposed to go active until October.” So they gave me an honorable discharge so I could begin my education immediately.

Marlin Detweiler:
So you could be discharged before you started.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
I really was. I have an honorable discharge before I ever actually got in. And the biggest thing, though, was my dad said yes, and my dad gave me permission. And that’s where I began my education — Mid-South Bible College, from there to Mid-America Seminary in Memphis, Tennessee. I did a D.Min. at Fuller Theological Seminary and a Ph.D. at Southern Seminary in Louisville. So that’s awesome.

Marlin Detweiler:
I’m intrigued to ask another question here. Going back a little bit — to what do you attribute — I understand that the ultimate attribution would be it was the providence of God working in your dad’s heart. But tell us about it at a practical level. What do you attribute his willingness to endorse your plan?

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
I have never been asked that question, and that is a great question. I saw my dad in church less than five times in my life, including the time when I, at 24, gave his memorial service after he died. And he was always very proud of his kids but not one to say it too much. Okay, and I do know this.

I probably learned more from my dad in terms of trusting me, giving me responsibility, a lot of discipline for which I may not have always been grateful, but I sure am now. And I think it was probably a tribute to that sense of, you know what? I want to empower him, and I want to trust him, because he always empowered me, and he always trusted me.

He gave me big-time responsibility when I had no business having it. I’ve shared with you before, my dad built a couple of golf courses, so I grew up on the golf course. But I suspect it’s because, deep down, he wanted to say, “I’m going to trust this kid. I’m going to let him go off and do what he thinks he needs to do.” I’m going to let him go off and do what he thinks he needs to do.

Marlin Detweiler:
Well, yeah, well.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
That’s true.

Marlin Detweiler:
And that is really a great story. Where did you fall in line with any brothers or sisters in the—

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
In terms of my, my— what.

Marlin Detweiler:
What happened to it? Did you have brothers or sisters? And how did they fall chronologically with you?

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
Yeah, I am the next to the last of eight.

Marlin Detweiler:
Wow. So, okay.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
I'm next to the last of eight. So my dad was born in 1914. Yeah. Big. Well, so I can’t take life. Thank you, Mom and Dad, for not stopping. I came late in life.

Marlin Detweiler:
That’s incredible. Now, you have served well at one church, you started another. But at one church, you served 13 years as a pastor, ten years as the head of Spanish River PCH down in South Florida on the East Coast. How did that come about? You were in a different church before that.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
I was. Well, when I had served in churches, I had a friend of mine named Maria Underwood, and we worked together for about 22 years, some during the time when we were in college and then after that in Memphis. Then we left and went back to Florida to plant the church. I was there for 17 years.

He was there for 25, but I was there for 17 before I went to Palm Beach Atlantic University in about 2002, thinking it was my last stop. I thought that was going to be where I was going to spend the rest of my life as a professor. I was the dean of the chapel, so I was speaking to students in chapel all the time, and I was teaching in the School of Ministry, and I loved it.

I was 41, 42, so I had a long trajectory. And God had other plans. Ultimately that led to Spanish River. I went there in January 2007 to be the director of leadership development and to oversee church planting because Spanish River had a very, and still does, a very large footprint in planting churches in the US and around the world.

Marlin Detweiler:
We felt that all the way in Orlando.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
That’s near. Yeah. And so that’s where I went. I went there January 2007. In October 2007, the elders came and said, we want you to follow David Nicholas, who had been the founding and senior pastor for 42 years.

Marlin Detweiler:
Wow.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
So that’s the guy I followed.

Marlin Detweiler:
Yeah. Following someone who’s been there 42 years, I can imagine that you had a couple of pairs of shoes to wear to get around, didn’t you?

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
Yeah, I did, and it was neat. Part of it was David Nicholas was great. He could have made it very difficult or made it less difficult, and he was very encouraging, very affirming of my leadership. For me, it was very easy to affirm David. We did a 20-month, 21-month transition. We did an eight-month behind-the-scenes transition that no one knew was going on, and then we did a 13-month public transition where our roles began. I’ve seen that done. That’s very wise.

Marlin Detweiler:
Did he remain in the congregation after that 21 months?

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
He did. He left for six months. He said, I’m going to get out of your way, but then I’m going to come back. And he had some very nice choice words to let me know it was good. He was going to keep me alive in all the best ways. And then he passed away just about a year and a half after he came back. Okay. Very suddenly. Anyway.

Marlin Detweiler:
What wisdom in all of that. I’ve seen so many different circumstances — pastors feeling like they need to leave completely and leave their friends behind for the sake of others. It doesn’t seem necessary, but six months seems like a pretty strategically effective way to deal with it.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
It was. The other piece, Marlin, that I think was huge — David knew where he was going. I just had a conversation with a friend today who’s going to go pastor a very large church in California, very large. And the pastor there does not know what he’s going to do afterwards. That’s going to be problematic.

Yeah. David Nicholas knew what he was going to do, and that made it easier. You can’t go from something until you know where you’re going to go to. So that was helpful.

Marlin Detweiler:
Yeah. That is so. Where was the church before Spanish River?

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
The church before Spanish — wow. I was at Memorial Perez for a little bit, but prior to that, it was Palm Beach Community Church.

Marlin Detweiler:
Okay.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
I did a church that I helped to found.

Marlin Detweiler:
So it was in the area?

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
Yeah, it was a little bit north, but yeah.

Marlin Detweiler:
And then, let's see, five years ago you decided to take the role of president of Lancaster Bible College and Capital Seminary and grad school five years ago. That right?

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
Almost six.

Marlin Detweiler:
Almost six. Yeah. Well, my book, that's five. So I got to, what in the world? Yeah. He's asked you to leave South Florida for Pennsylvania. I did that at one point. People thought I was nuts. You don't move from Pennsylvania to Florida. But what possessed you to take that role? What was it about it that said, I want to do this, I should do this.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
You know, it's interesting. I had, we had Spanish River, had an educational partnership with LBC in about 2012. My PhD mentor, Gary Bradfield, who I'm having breakfast with tomorrow morning, Gary was working for LBC and for Doctor Peter Tagg, my predecessor. And Gary calls me up, says, Tommy, we've got a lot of master's degrees.

We don't have one in church planting. We'd love to launch a church planting cohort. And so that's what we did. We entered into a partnership with LBC, very unique in that, kind of the theological differences there between.

Marlin Detweiler:
Oh, that's right. For the audience, tell us LBC's theological tenets.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
Yep. Yeah.

Marlin Detweiler:
Everybody on this will probably know the PCA, Presbyterian Church in America. It's the conservative Presbyterian denomination, reformed, etc.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
No, LBC is very conservative, but predominantly deep in heritage dispensation. And so what made it interesting is my predecessor, Doctor Peter Tagg, he, you know, we both stand in the exact same place in terms of the authority of the word of God, you know, the inerrancy and infallibility, the authority of the word of God.

We were absolutely united with respect to the supremacy of Jesus in all things and the substitutionary, atoning work of Christ and the need for the gospel to go forward. And our mindsets were like, we've got a partner. It was perhaps the folks around us that was a little bit more difficult. But at the time, Steve Nichols, if you know Steve Nichols from Ligonier.

Marlin Detweiler:
I sure do. We've had Steve do a number of things related to Veritas, including this.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
And Steve, dynamite. I love Steve. So Steve was at LBC at the time. Right. So he was constantly talking to our elders and saying, guys, Steve Nichols is at LBC. Can't get any more reformed than Steve Nichols. Come on. So anyway, we entered into this partnership and it was really a neat partnership, Marlin. And we saw a lot of guys prepared to plant churches, and it was a very good model.

It worked really, really well. So that's where my relationship with LBC came. And then in 2018, Shannon and I were really wrestling with the next chapter. We love Spanish River, but in my mind I was at that spot where I was either going to step away from SRQ, not because of anything in the relationships.

I mean, I had a great relationship with Spanish River, love it. Three kids who are in Boca are still a part of Spanish River, and I love that. David Cassidy, who's the pastor there, is doing a phenomenal job. So I love it, but just for where we were in our season. And about that time, the group that was looking for the next leader at Lancaster Bible College reached out, said, would you be interested?

And that began the process. It's its own unique story because I was in the process, then stepped out of it, and then subsequently they asked me to step back into it. And so that's what it was. Shannon and I have never gone anywhere or not gone anywhere because of our kids. And we love our kids dearly. And we've never gone or not gone by virtue of location.

I love South Florida, but as you know, Lancaster is a beautiful place. It's pretty chilly right now and it's early, but.

Marlin Detweiler:
Think that's it. Just that today's any representation of the winter. Wow.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
Yeah, it's the wind. It was zipping today. But I think part of it, what's unique to me is I began my work, my preparation in a little Bible college in Memphis, Tennessee. And now I've got this privilege to go back and serve this rather large Bible college in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. And, you know, we say that we're different in that a traditional Bible college is going to predominantly prepare pastors and missionaries.

But what we do is we provide an accredited university-level education for multiple careers with a unique focus on the Bible and biblical worldview and Christ and Christian character. And so the opportunity to step into that, and I had higher education background, and I love learning, was a really unique opportunity.

Marlin Detweiler:
Yeah. Well, are you back in the classroom at the seminary?

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
I am not. I have taught for Arts, for Knox, for LBC, for Capital. But I have not been back in the classroom since I've taken on this role as a president.

Marlin Detweiler:
You haven't been at Capital Seminary? You haven't done any class work at Capital Seminary?

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
Not since becoming president. I did before, but not since becoming president.

Marlin Detweiler:
Well, that is fascinating. How do you see, as a seminary president and as a Bible college president? I understand the roles — one or maybe it's considered two — but you're in both of them. How do you see the pastorate returning to its former glory? I'm assuming by that that we have had fewer people go into the pastorate.

We've had more people leave the pastorate, statistically speaking, than normal in the course of history. How does it reform? How does it recover?

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
Well, I guess before I’ll speak to that or try to attempt, it is fascinating to me that — and it's one of the things I love about LBC — the opportunities both in the US and around the world to make an impact for Christ through business, through education, through civil service is monstrous. And when we consider the fact that in a so-called post-Christian society, fewer people are entering into church, it's kind of cool that God is sending a lot more people with an understanding of their role as a follower of Jesus living on mission with Jesus in the world.

You know, living on mission with Jesus as an educator, as a politician, as a businessperson. And so a lot of what we're doing is equipping people to live on mission with Jesus in the world, loving people where they are, but pointing them to the one who’s the way, the truth, and the life.

In terms of turning that around — the pastorate side of things — that is an interesting piece. At Spanish River, we partnered in 32 countries, with well over 500 churches we've helped to plant. And it's a lot harder today to plant a church in the US, and in the UK for that matter, and in other places as well, but particularly in the US from what it used to be.

And I think there are going to be a lot more vocational, bi-vocational pastors than before. And I think it's more in keeping with where our society is. I'm not saying that's right or wrong. I think it's just being a cultural exchange and looking at where culture is. It’s going to be folks going, by and large, and being salt and light where God puts us.

And in many respects, it’s more like back in the days of reading theology — you're preparing people really more one-on-one and less one-on-many. And to some extent, it feels to me that that's a bit of what we're moving back toward, you know, more like reading theology.

We're gathering together, learning what it looks like to do this work God’s called me to do as a pastor. I want you to walk with me. And there’s more of that and less of people just saying, I'm going to go to Bible college to learn how to be a pastor.

And quite frankly, if I may add one last thing, I think a lot of churches are not looking to Bible colleges to equip. They're often doing it themselves because in their mindset, “We can do it better.” And I think in some respects that’s true — not in every respect, but in some respects that can be true.

Marlin Detweiler:
Where that becomes a mentorship, an apprenticeship — an approach that keeps the learner, the apprentice, in the context of his work. And that has wonderful practical implications.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
It does, because oftentimes, you know how that goes — oftentimes in an institution like ours and others, you’re going to have some type of apprenticeship, you’re going to have an internship. Well, an apprenticeship or internship is nice, but a life apprenticeship is a whole different deal.

And that’s where the Bible College has the opportunity to work even more closely with the church as opposed to this bifurcation of “I’m going to go off to school to become.” Now there needs to be a lot more walking together to develop and build.

Marlin Detweiler:
Is that affecting programs at Capital Seminary?

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
It is some. I think it needs to more, quite frankly.

Marlin Detweiler:
Interesting.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
I think it needs to more, quite frankly. But some. It’s interesting. We can go into a lot of that, but that may be more time than you have today.

Marlin Detweiler:
It probably is. And I want to capture something else because one of the things that I know about you is that you have spent time in leadership philosophy and leadership development. One of the things that intrigued me as I prepared for this was a website on which I believe the title was Don’t Ask the Fish.

And then underneath that is a quote — I’m not sure who it’s from; you can tell us — but if you want to know what the water is like, don’t ask the fish. What do you mean by that?

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
So, it is a quote that's attributed to China. I've never been able to track it down. And I'm a researcher, so I don't.

Marlin Detweiler:
Like this sound proverbial from China. It does what it does.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
But the point being that if not, you know, the fish swims in its water, the fish lives in its water. The fish doesn't really understand its water. You have to get outside the tank and really look back to see what's that water like. And I think it's a metaphor for where we are as people. We swim in these cultural waters and from our part as believers.

I've got to step back outside that water, look through the lens of what God says, and look back on what I'm seeing. Filter everything through the Word of God. So it is essentially looking at all of life through the lens of Scripture. And if I wonder what the water is like, I'm not going to ask the fish. I got to get outside the tank and say, what does God say about this, this or that?

Marlin Detweiler:
That say, developed form of wisdom? How do you encourage people to do that? What does the site produce that helps people develop that kind of wisdom that allows them to not get caught up in their personal circumstance and bias from it?

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
I guess part of it is to not neglect the personal circumstance because the personal circumstances are real circumstance. Absolutely. But to not let the personal circumstance be the prevailing voice with respect to that circumstance because the prevailing voice is God. And what he says about that circumstance and what he says about what he's doing with it, or what he's going to do in spite of it, or what he's going to do because of it.

And so part of what that does is that opportunity to, if I can aside a little bit, I tell folks, when it comes to our folks here at LVC and other places, as a leader, we have to be able to be both in a circumstance and outside a circumstance at the same time. You know, I have to be right there in the midst of maybe a very tough financial pinch.

Or some difficulty that's occurred on campus. But I have to be willing to, I have to at the same time step outside of it and look at it, you know, dispassionately, very objectively. And I think oftentimes we get in a circumstance and we're caught up in it and we can't step outside of it to say, how do I look at this?

You know, outside of where I am right now? And that's what the Word of God does. It takes me to God's plain and says, let me tell you about this. I mean, the Psalms are full of this. You know, the Psalms are the moods of faith. When, where the heck are you, God, to God, you're amazing. I mean, you get the full gamut, but it's in looking at life through the lens of the Scripture, through the lens of what God says about me, what God says about this, what God says matters.

What God says, don't sweat, is seriously significant. I think when it comes to leadership and that if I don't understand the sovereignty of God, I'm going to be a very unsettled leader. And if I don't understand my identity as a follower of Jesus, that I am greatly loved of the Father, not because of who I am or what I've done, but because Christ loved me and did for me what I can't do myself.

If I don't get that my identity is always going to be, I'm going to be chasing somebody’s approval. I'm going to be chasing numbers, I'm going to be chasing dollars. But if I come to the understanding of my identity as Jesus, I may have done a rotten job, but I'm going to go to bed at night knowing I'm okay.

I can't keep doing a rotten job and keep my job, but I'm going to be okay. And the same thing. God sovereign.

Marlin Detweiler:
It, you know, in a less interesting way sometimes I've heard it called rising above our circumstances. There are times, though, where that is incredibly difficult and incredibly challenging. Do you have any words of wisdom that help us when that's a lot more difficult sometimes than other times where it might not be?

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
Yeah, I think all of us, you know, we're like Joseph, you know, 13 years between God's promise and the fulfillment. Thirteen years a long time and one year.

Marlin Detweiler:
That's not a drive-through mentality at work.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
And it's not, you know, we're the US, man. It's microwave. We want it today. And we'd like it in the next ten minutes.

Marlin Detweiler:
Where is the nearest Chick-Fil-A?

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
Yeah, exactly. And so it's good to be reminded, the 13 years, you know, that God is doing something that I may not see, and I may not see it in this lifetime. We don't like hearing that. We really don't like hearing that. But he is working those things together for my good. And I think the short side is sometimes it's 13 years, sometimes it's Nehemiah though, and he's going to the king and offers up the quick, Lord, help me. And God comes through. And that's the beauty of walking with God. He's in both of those spaces.

Marlin Detweiler:
And that is absolutely true. What else has attracted you to being a teacher and a mentor of leadership?

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
My personal mission statement, if I can put it that way, is I help leaders maximize and multiply their one holy life for God's glory. I mean, that to me is that second Timothy two two work. You know, that's Barnabas coming alongside of people. You know, that's Aquila and Priscilla pulling Apollos aside and saying, let me show you a little bit more.

Excellent way. I mean, it's just that sense of, I mean, all of us, we have this amazingly one and only life, and I am not the owner of it. I am a steward of it. And if I can learn how to steward it a little better and by God's grace, maybe help someone else learn how to steward it a little better.

That's a good thing to do. So that for me is, you know, as part of that, trying to steward it well. And by God's goodness, hopefully being able to help others do the same.

Marlin Detweiler:
Well, that is really a good word. Now, I also know that you're not all work and no play. Tell me about Car Safari.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
Thank you for asking because that is an absolute delight. So here's where Car Safari comes in. I think, Marlin, that margin is more important than vacation.

Marlin Detweiler:
Okay. I think I know what you mean, but let me make sure that I understand it and that our listeners do.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
So I think we often think if I can just get away for a vacation, everything's going to be good, but I can get away for a vacation, and I can come back one week later and feel like I need a vacation. But if I have margin built into my life, I'm going to be in a much better spot when I look, when you turn, when you open up the Bible, when you go to first Kings 18 and there's Elijah knocking out the prophets of Baal, and you turn the page and you come to chapter 19 and he's running for his life from Jezebel.

What happened? You know what happened? Practically speaking, he was out of gas. You know, he was out of gas and he needed, I mean, the first thing, I did the rest and let me give you something to eat, I mean, rest and let me give you something to eat. Jesus said to his disciples, come away and rest for a while.

There is a need for margin. We are human beings and as human beings, we're created in the image of the creator. So we are creative beings. And I think there has to be that time for what puts fuel back in our tank.

And for me, that's the automotive side of things. I'll give you one example. When Winston Churchill had that big problem in the Dardanelles at the end of World War One, and he lost his place in Parliament. The guy was like 40 something. He thought he was done for. He was toast.

And he went to his brother or sister-in-law's home, and she was painting, and he had never picked up a paintbrush. And when he picked up a paintbrush, he realized, this is me. And when you look at Winston Churchill's life, he's got a phenomenal book called Painting as a Pastime. He was painting everywhere he went. And part of the reason he did is it put that little bit of fuel back in his tank.

And for me, that's what automobiles do. I love the creative side. I love fixing things. I love solving problems. I love fabricating. I like working with metal. I like painting. So that's where that comes in.

Marlin Detweiler:
Well, I forget what I saw that led me to the site, but it talked about fast cars, so I was expecting to go see Ferraris and kids, and that wasn't it at all. It was some of the really cool, really old 30s and 40s kinds of vehicles. And you restored some of them very nicely. It was really fun to look at.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
Oh, thanks. Yeah. I'm an eclectic dude. So I've got late model hot rods and old hot rods and other stuff. So that's great.

Marlin Detweiler:
Thank you so much for joining us today. This has been great. On Sundays, in the summer, when we're going to the same church, I always look to that pew spot that you sit at there to come visit.

Dr. Tommy Kiedis:
Great being with you, Marlin. And I sure appreciate the opportunity.

Marlin Detweiler:
Thank you. And, folks, thank you, too, for joining us on this episode of Veritas Vox, the voice of Classical Christian Education. We hope to see you next time.